Art for episode 1096

1096: Algorithmic Amplification

Adam Curry & John C. Dvorak

2h 57m
December 20th, 2018
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Executive Producers: Sir Francis Earl of SRQ, Sir Geoffrey B. Marcy, Jeramey Johnson, Anonymous, Joseph Finley

Associate Executive Producers: Sean Kunath, Taylor Martin, Sir Timothy of No Fixed Title, Sir Dwight The Knight, Baron Fernando DeLosReyes, Sir Keith of Fayettenam, Dame Patricia Viscountess of Biscayne Bay

Cover Art by Mike Reilley

Visit the Shownotes for episode 1096

Chapters

0:00
Start of Show
Woodstock
2:18
New Knowledge Report on IRA Tactics
Woodstock
23:11
Secret Experiment in Alabama Senate Race Imitated Russian Tactics
Woodstock
33:56
Crowdstrike Used NSA Database for Private Profit
Woodstock
35:08
WaPo Sent Journalists to Hotels in Prague for Steele Dossier
Woodstock
40:48
Nigel Farage Prepares for Second Brexit Referendum
Woodstock
43:40
The Irish Border
Woodstock
46:39
Brexit: The Uncivil War
Woodstock
49:07
Parliamentary Ejaculation
Woodstock
50:35
Judge Delays Michael Flynn's Sentencing
Woodstock
53:16
Turkish Foreign Minister Claims Trump is Extraditing Fethullah Gülen
Woodstock
57:50
US State Department Personnel Being Evacuated From Syria
Woodstock
1:05:43
Credits
Woodstock
1:37:21
Financial Times' Person of The Year is George Soros
Woodstock
1:38:10
Advertisers Dump Tucker Carlson After He Said Immigrants Make US Dirtier
Woodstock
1:40:46
Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin Attempt to Replace Patreon
Woodstock
1:47:55
Companies Had More Access to Private Facebook Data Than Disclosed
Woodstock
1:55:56
Mineral Extraction in Nord-Kivu, the Democratic Republic of Congo
Woodstock
2:02:19
We The People Will Fund The Wall Fundraiser
Woodstock
2:03:41
Donations
Woodstock
2:11:24
Birthdays & Title Changes
Woodstock
2:13:46
Mandatory Alcohol Screenings on the Roads in Canada
Woodstock
2:16:47
Jean-Claude Juncker Takes Another Tumble
Woodstock
2:17:38
Belgian Prime Minister Resigns After No-Confidence Motion
Woodstock
2:17:53
Yellow Vest Protestors Suggest Tech Giants Pay for Climate Change Agreements
Woodstock
2:19:15
Trump Foundation Shuts Down After Lawsuit Alleges a “Shocking Pattern of Illegality”
Woodstock
2:21:24
Canada Post Operations Back to Normal
Woodstock
2:22:16
New Airport Baggage Screening Technology Will Allow Liquids in Bagage
Woodstock
2:23:18
Elon Musk Unveils First Boring Company Tunnel
Woodstock
2:33:42
Sandy Hook Parents Promote App for Reporting School Threats
Woodstock
2:37:31
Twitter Bug May Have Been Exploited by State-Sponsored Hackers
Woodstock
2:38:12
Arrest of Doctor Linked to Borderline Shooting Investigation
Woodstock
2:42:07
US Bans Bump Stocks
Woodstock
2:44:21
Strange Light Illuminates the Sky of North California
Woodstock
2:48:50
China and Russia Band Together on Controversial Heating Experiments to Modify the Atmosphere
Woodstock
2:51:08
End of Show
Woodstock
  • 0:00
    oh no spasms in trouble Adam curry
  • 0:03
    Jhansi Devorah this is your
  • 0:07
    award-winning Nation Media assassination
  • 0:09
    episode 96 this is no agenda curry from
  • 0:23
    Northern Silicon Valley where I'm just
  • 0:25
    back from making a batch of delicious
  • 0:27
    homemade sauerkraut I'm John see
  • 0:30
    tomorrow and the recipe will be made
  • 0:36
    available in these show notes
  • 0:39
    want it well you don't it's just so
  • 0:42
    simple recipe I mean once you doing
  • 0:46
    research you found out how to make it
  • 0:47
    you this is idiotic that why you buy
  • 0:50
    this stuff now what is what is the basis
  • 0:53
    of sauerkraut 800 grams of cabbage and 1
  • 0:57
    tablespoon of salt mixed together
  • 1:02
    vinegar no vinegar no God no vinegar no
  • 1:05
    water that's it it's cabbage salt mixed
  • 1:09
    together boom kraut
  • 1:12
    there's some intermediate steps be
  • 1:14
    careful about certain things but just
  • 1:16
    leave just a few intermediate steps it's
  • 1:19
    a few well here we are everybody it's
  • 1:21
    December 20th 2018 and I found the news
  • 1:25
    to be interesting these last four days
  • 1:27
    yes yes yes I picked up some interesting
  • 1:31
    stuff I had some research I liked it I
  • 1:34
    don't know it was good there's a lot
  • 1:36
    going on yeah what did you pick up
  • 1:40
    I got a lot of random stuff I didn't
  • 1:43
    find anything things that would make me
  • 1:45
    go and ha ha can I do an eye on you then
  • 1:48
    or try ya know knock me out
  • 1:50
    ya know there it is contributing to the
  • 1:53
    one contributing to the word cloud thank
  • 1:56
    you very much that's that's a new
  • 1:57
    feature now I think that the clog walk
  • 2:00
    is doing Tom from Australia for our
  • 2:03
    transferred cloud over the art
  • 2:07
    of each episode it's interesting I like
  • 2:09
    it it's another part of our value for
  • 2:12
    value network you never know what shows
  • 2:14
    up it's always valuable somehow yeah
  • 2:16
    it's so valuable it is a report came out
  • 2:19
    big Senate commissioned report and of
  • 2:24
    course some of the news outlets seem to
  • 2:26
    have an advanced copy of this report the
  • 2:29
    day before I think this came out Monday
  • 2:32
    Monday or maybe Tuesday this is the
  • 2:35
    Select Senate Intelligence Committee
  • 2:36
    committee and they've published two
  • 2:40
    reports that they commissioned and the
  • 2:43
    first one is titled computational
  • 2:46
    propaganda research project that's from
  • 2:48
    the University of Oxford I'm gonna skip
  • 2:50
    that one for today's presentation the
  • 2:53
    second one is from a company based in
  • 2:55
    Austin which caught my eye called new
  • 2:58
    knowledge and another thing called my
  • 3:01
    eye the title of this report is the
  • 3:04
    tactics and tropes of the internet
  • 3:06
    research agency that would be the
  • 3:08
    Russian troll farm and what caught my
  • 3:12
    mind caught my eye was the word tropes
  • 3:13
    haven't we heard this used a little more
  • 3:15
    I mean I think I I recall saying hey
  • 3:18
    what is this tropes thing they're using
  • 3:20
    last week or the week before maybe even
  • 3:24
    I was it was it was it was a while ago
  • 3:27
    are you fuck you in the shower you kept
  • 3:36
    me back what are you doing just tell me
  • 3:38
    help me out I've written the clip list I
  • 3:40
    forgot to do that oh okay um trope meme
  • 3:44
    cliche right but I've talked about we
  • 3:48
    put it up just a dupe is it it's one of
  • 3:50
    those terms I've had this the theory
  • 3:53
    over the years which is there are
  • 3:55
    certain terms if you read them or hear
  • 3:56
    them or see them you know what the
  • 3:59
    political standing is that the person
  • 4:00
    doing the writing trope is the
  • 4:02
    left-wingers to Hermus like chilling is
  • 4:05
    another one I see somebody used the word
  • 4:07
    chilling right it tends to be someone
  • 4:10
    that leans a little bit to the left that
  • 4:12
    would make sense when we dive into this
  • 4:14
    report a little bit I just thought it
  • 4:16
    was interesting that the word tropes had
  • 4:18
    showed up or trope or just before this
  • 4:21
    report came out I'm gonna give you a
  • 4:23
    background on this actually I'm not
  • 4:25
    going to I'm going to give you a
  • 4:27
    background from NPR and because this
  • 4:30
    report has now proven once and for all
  • 4:33
    that the Russians most definitely helped
  • 4:37
    not just help but probably elected Trump
  • 4:40
    as president
  • 4:41
    yes and the way they did it was not
  • 4:45
    through advertising no no no that was
  • 4:48
    nothing compared to what actually went
  • 4:50
    on and that was the fake accounts the
  • 4:53
    fake accounts were so good that they
  • 4:57
    made made three million
  • 5:00
    african-americans stay home and not vote
  • 5:03
    in this election and that's why Hillary
  • 5:05
    Clinton lost and NPR explains two
  • 5:08
    reports out today providing a clearest
  • 5:10
    picture yet of the extent to which
  • 5:12
    Russia went to influence voters ahead of
  • 5:15
    the 2016 presidential election the
  • 5:17
    reports focus on a Russian troll
  • 5:19
    factories use of nearly every major
  • 5:21
    social media platform from Facebook to
  • 5:24
    YouTube NPR justice reporter Ryan Lucas
  • 5:27
    has combed through the documents and
  • 5:29
    joins us now hey Ryan brother so who
  • 5:31
    exactly authored these reports well this
  • 5:33
    is the work of I like how he combed
  • 5:35
    through the documents does that mean he
  • 5:38
    really looked at him or just we do it's
  • 5:40
    just the three brushes what does that
  • 5:42
    mean combed through them is this the
  • 5:44
    analyst I'm gonna wait until you're back
  • 5:54
    so who exactly authored these reports
  • 5:57
    well this is the work of private
  • 5:58
    researchers and cybersecurity experts
  • 6:00
    and what they did is and note the
  • 6:02
    private researchers and security experts
  • 6:05
    that's kind of code for this austin
  • 6:07
    startup company examine the activities
  • 6:09
    of this Russian troll farm that we've
  • 6:11
    talked a lot about now the reports are
  • 6:13
    based on data that the social media
  • 6:14
    companies and the Senate Intelligence
  • 6:16
    Committee provided them important to
  • 6:18
    remember that that committee is
  • 6:20
    investigating Russia's interference in
  • 6:22
    the 2016 election right it views its
  • 6:24
    role as getting to the bottom of what
  • 6:25
    the Russians did and then explaining
  • 6:27
    that to the American public that's why
  • 6:29
    we're able to see these reports that of
  • 6:31
    course stands in contrast to the special
  • 6:32
    counsels investigation which is focused
  • 6:34
    on criminal conduct and prosecuting
  • 6:36
    those who broke the law what do these
  • 6:37
    new reports add that is actually new
  • 6:40
    right well first off what they confirm
  • 6:43
    bottom line is the big picture
  • 6:44
    conclusions that the US intelligence
  • 6:46
    community came to which is that Russia
  • 6:48
    social media manipulation was designed
  • 6:50
    to sow discord to divide Americans and
  • 6:52
    hurt Hillary Clinton and ultimately to
  • 6:54
    help Donald Trump but
  • 6:55
    they also provide a greater level of
  • 6:57
    detail than we previously had they show
  • 6:59
    that the IRA built up fake personas
  • 7:01
    across all sorts of social media
  • 7:03
    platforms that lent them legitimacy but
  • 7:06
    what's really interesting is the
  • 7:07
    research shows that the Russians
  • 7:09
    specifically targeted African American
  • 7:12
    communities at a higher rate than any
  • 7:13
    other uh and the Russians also pushed
  • 7:15
    voter suppression narratives to agree
  • 7:17
    that social media companies themselves
  • 7:18
    have played done so okay so you say the
  • 7:20
    West was targeted African American
  • 7:22
    communities more than any other
  • 7:23
    community how did they do that
  • 7:25
    oh wow just how did they do that
  • 7:28
    well these efforts were focused on
  • 7:30
    developing an audience even recruiting
  • 7:33
    assets so people to act in the real
  • 7:34
    world to say staged rallies now one of
  • 7:37
    the reports says that a main message
  • 7:40
    that was pushed to African American
  • 7:42
    voters was that it was best to sit out
  • 7:43
    the election to boycott the election
  • 7:45
    that the press turn out right and then
  • 7:48
    one example of a fake persona that was
  • 7:50
    created by the IRA that got a lot of
  • 7:51
    traction by the IRA that got a lot of
  • 7:52
    it's an Instagram account set up with
  • 7:54
    the username of that black stag Ram
  • 7:56
    and it had more than 300,000 followers
  • 7:59
    one of the things that these reports
  • 8:00
    made clear is that the Russians
  • 8:02
    leveraged every major social media
  • 8:04
    platform Instagram had largely stayed
  • 8:06
    under the radar that's no longer the
  • 8:08
    case these reports say that Instagram
  • 8:10
    was actually a huge part of those
  • 8:13
    efforts online for example when the
  • 8:14
    report says that fake Russian content on
  • 8:17
    Facebook received seventy six point five
  • 8:19
    million engagements on Instagram fake
  • 8:21
    Russian content earned more than two
  • 8:23
    times as many engagements Wow okay just
  • 8:26
    this is almost done this clip but stop
  • 8:28
    there you're talking apples and oranges
  • 8:31
    when you're talking engagement I'd look
  • 8:33
    just the other day at my Twitter
  • 8:34
    statistics for a tweet I sent out and I
  • 8:37
    saw you know one person had created
  • 8:40
    three engagements though so how do you
  • 8:42
    do that well you look you saw it first
  • 8:44
    then you liked it that's the second one
  • 8:46
    if you retweeted it that's the third so
  • 8:47
    one user can create three engagements on
  • 8:50
    Instagram the reason why it's really
  • 8:52
    apples to oranges is while you cannot
  • 8:54
    retweet just scrolling by will count as
  • 8:59
    a view and the the process of engaging
  • 9:02
    on Instagram is just going to Timeline
  • 9:06
    double tapping on the picture you don't
  • 9:07
    even have to look at the car
  • 9:08
    mint or anything and this is people do
  • 9:10
    this incessantly does it double tap
  • 9:12
    DoubleTap double tap done so that to get
  • 9:14
    huge engagement doesn't necessarily mean
  • 9:17
    it's it's it was different from Facebook
  • 9:19
    that and researchers say importantly
  • 9:21
    looking ahead that the Russians have
  • 9:22
    shifted a lot of their activity to
  • 9:24
    Instagram since the election which is an
  • 9:25
    important point the Russians are still
  • 9:27
    using social media to try to influence
  • 9:28
    Americans friends
  • 9:29
    absolutely no and it's a really
  • 9:31
    important point to make that Russians
  • 9:32
    continue to use fake accounts on these
  • 9:34
    platforms for nefarious purposes gotta
  • 9:36
    stop with a logical every once in a
  • 9:38
    while you got to be logically
  • 9:41
    if all that's true and the Russians can
  • 9:44
    do this and they're doing it as we speak
  • 9:46
    how come they haven't done it to stop
  • 9:47
    this stupid investigation but they're
  • 9:51
    trying really hard no powerful they got
  • 9:53
    us the budget if they can change the
  • 9:55
    election but they apparently cannot stop
  • 9:57
    this investigation hey ixnay on the
  • 9:58
    object ley okay so let's take a look at
  • 10:02
    this company new knowledge for just a
  • 10:03
    brief second we'll come back to him
  • 10:04
    they're in Austin startup they started
  • 10:08
    at the capital factory I know the
  • 10:09
    capital factory well and no Jason over
  • 10:11
    there it's a kind of like an incubator
  • 10:13
    where their business model is selling
  • 10:15
    yes thank you Bader or one of those just
  • 10:17
    rent your office here as I was saying
  • 10:21
    it's an it's an Inc like all incubators
  • 10:24
    they have you know what do you call them
  • 10:26
    their mentors and they rent you a desk
  • 10:29
    of course it's exactly what it is that's
  • 10:31
    what an incubator isn't they take stock
  • 10:33
    in in exchange for that but also there's
  • 10:37
    some other interesting investors we have
  • 10:41
    the here it is the gvv which is a
  • 10:46
    Chinese based investor
  • 10:49
    and then we also have the c-lux capital
  • 10:57
    which was set up in 2011 by former CIA
  • 11:01
    director under bill clinton james
  • 11:03
    Woolsey and they're also a partner in
  • 11:06
    this company now if you look at this
  • 11:07
    company's homepage new knowledge comm
  • 11:10
    what they do is the following - hold on
  • 11:12
    a second you tell me the Chinese and
  • 11:16
    ex-cia guys are promoting a kind of a
  • 11:20
    narrative we'll use that word just
  • 11:23
    slightly more or less
  • 11:26
    I'd say smear Trump because he didn't
  • 11:30
    win the election logically or
  • 11:32
    legitimately well let's take one though
  • 11:35
    the CIA's been out to get Trump since
  • 11:37
    day one and there's no coincidence here
  • 11:39
    let's take it a little further
  • 11:41
    both cofounders of the company worked in
  • 11:43
    the State Department in cyber
  • 11:45
    initiatives under Hillary Clinton they
  • 11:48
    are a member of the Alliance for
  • 11:50
    securing democracy which is counseled by
  • 11:54
    Mike Chertoff Bill Kristol Mike Morell
  • 11:59
    John Podesta Mike Rogers I mean this is
  • 12:03
    it's yeah it's it's obviously a shill
  • 12:08
    but what's interesting is this company
  • 12:10
    does do a certain kind of business right
  • 12:12
    there on the home page protecting brands
  • 12:14
    from social media disinformation attacks
  • 12:16
    new knowledge is a cyber security
  • 12:18
    company specializing in information
  • 12:20
    defense for highly visible brands under
  • 12:22
    attack by coordinated disinformation
  • 12:24
    campaigns through machine learning and
  • 12:26
    AI we detect threats and provide brand
  • 12:29
    manipulation protection before damage is
  • 12:32
    done and you know so they have big
  • 12:34
    clients and one of their clients is that
  • 12:37
    is the Advisory Council or the S are the
  • 12:40
    Alliance for securing democracies that's
  • 12:42
    one of their clients this is who they
  • 12:44
    work for so it's obvious that they are
  • 12:47
    as you already said just by using the
  • 12:49
    word trope kind of shows their their
  • 12:51
    left-leaning but if you look at the
  • 12:53
    entire I'm not gonna read anything from
  • 12:54
    this report John it's a marketing report
  • 12:57
    that you and I would have been proud of
  • 12:58
    a consultancy and with graphs and then
  • 13:01
    diagrams and colorful shit spouting off
  • 13:04
    the page and numbers of the S you want
  • 13:06
    and their conclusion is indeed that
  • 13:09
    Russia succeeded with huge just huge
  • 13:14
    amounts of a social engineering through
  • 13:18
    accounts they managed not through the
  • 13:20
    ads but through account they managed to
  • 13:22
    keep three million black Americans from
  • 13:25
    coming out to vote which interestingly
  • 13:26
    is exactly the same amount of people
  • 13:28
    that came out in addition to the black
  • 13:31
    vote when Barack Obama ran for president
  • 13:35
    ran for re-election in 2012 you can see
  • 13:39
    the graph it goes
  • 13:39
    and it comes later great do they show
  • 13:42
    here is what I'd want to know
  • 13:43
    immediately is what I'd want to know
  • 13:46
    the graph of the black Americans who
  • 13:48
    didn't show up to vote which was the
  • 13:51
    number they have the black Americans who
  • 13:53
    did show up to vote when Barack Obama
  • 13:55
    was running and the black America there
  • 13:58
    was a zephyr and the black Americans who
  • 14:01
    didn't show up in the previous election
  • 14:04
    with George W Bush no they don't go back
  • 14:08
    to well they do they have it they have a
  • 14:09
    graph and a timeline and it's kind of
  • 14:11
    flat and you see it start to move up in
  • 14:14
    2008 but not really the real the real
  • 14:16
    upward swing with 2012 accordingly
  • 14:19
    according to their graph but and
  • 14:22
    otherwise those time so I would compare
  • 14:24
    the 2004 election to the 2016 election
  • 14:29
    and that would be my baseline for saying
  • 14:31
    it with how the blacks normally yeah
  • 14:33
    unfortunately I don't think there works
  • 14:35
    because they didn't do it by percentages
  • 14:37
    but by absolute numbers so yes it was
  • 14:40
    more than 2004 but that could also be
  • 14:42
    population I mean but it was more than
  • 14:44
    2004 it was more than 2000 for Hillary
  • 14:48
    vote no it was more than yes
  • 14:51
    then the vote in 2004 then what did this
  • 14:53
    is making no sense to me at all what
  • 14:56
    they're saying is that the vote in 2012
  • 14:59
    the Hillary vote no the Obama
  • 15:03
    re-election vote he was up three million
  • 15:06
    from 2008
  • 15:08
    and the light sorry
  • 15:11
    so what exactly in fact NPR in their own
  • 15:16
    reporting on the same day contradicts
  • 15:19
    this it's estimated that millions of
  • 15:21
    people who voted for Barack Obama in
  • 15:23
    2012 stayed home during the 2016
  • 15:26
    presidential election and many of those
  • 15:28
    non voters were black for this political
  • 15:30
    season one big question is whether
  • 15:32
    African Americans still feel like they
  • 15:34
    have a home in the Democratic Party a
  • 15:35
    party that year after year depends on
  • 15:38
    their votes and P our political
  • 15:39
    correspondent Ozma holla'd reports from
  • 15:41
    Cleveland for many black voters I talked
  • 15:43
    to say they have been loyal Democrats
  • 15:46
    for years and yet hardly anything has
  • 15:48
    changed in their communities if a Oh
  • 15:50
    Luke later is a 23 year old working with
  • 15:52
    the Ohio young black Democrats
  • 15:54
    he says his party has taken black votes
  • 15:57
    for granted and that's something that
  • 15:58
    needs to change clearly because black
  • 16:00
    Millennials will just stay at home it's
  • 16:02
    not 1980 where people are still like
  • 16:05
    kind of fresh like our parents just got
  • 16:07
    the right to vote played or feels like
  • 16:08
    Democrats are too focused on courting
  • 16:11
    middle class white voters focusing on
  • 16:13
    waspy middle class issues is not going
  • 16:16
    to win in 2018 or 2020 but his friend
  • 16:20
    and fellow Democrat Gabrielle Jackson
  • 16:22
    insists the situation is improving in
  • 16:25
    2016 she says some candidates simply
  • 16:28
    refuse to engage with black voters this
  • 16:31
    year is different we've had almost every
  • 16:33
    gubernatorial candidate we'll have them
  • 16:35
    all by May by the primary come and talk
  • 16:38
    to us about our issues and things that
  • 16:39
    affect them and Jackson says if
  • 16:41
    politicians don't they shouldn't expect
  • 16:44
    votes these people are recognizing that
  • 16:45
    in order to win you cannot ignore us so
  • 16:49
    maybe it wasn't the Russians but maybe
  • 16:52
    it was I don't know NPR seems a bit
  • 16:54
    contradictory there and they're
  • 16:55
    reporting now this year so here's the
  • 16:58
    line I liked
  • 17:00
    1980 when our parents were first allowed
  • 17:03
    to vote yeah I know hey man don't you
  • 17:09
    know that that was the first year that
  • 17:10
    they were allowed to vote when I parents
  • 17:14
    are first allowed to vote yeah okay well
  • 17:16
    that's an interesting well I sense a
  • 17:18
    sense of history well I think what would
  • 17:20
    what he means there is if you look at
  • 17:22
    the when were they when were they
  • 17:25
    allowed to vote
  • 17:26
    they were allowed to vote after that
  • 17:28
    what that amendment was passed which we
  • 17:30
    have citizens yes but I think that I
  • 17:33
    think he's referring to the Civil Rights
  • 17:36
    Act for some reason Civil Rights Act
  • 17:39
    what was this a fourth
  • 17:40
    yeah well that's not 1980 no but but if
  • 17:44
    you if you were born and night Reagan
  • 17:46
    got elected if you were born in 1960
  • 17:49
    then you would be able to vote in the
  • 17:51
    1980 election isn't that the point that
  • 17:54
    he's making even though it's wrong were
  • 17:57
    born in the 1960s is what you said that
  • 18:01
    I think look I'm just trying to decipher
  • 18:03
    this as well I think what the guy said
  • 18:04
    meant is they were born right before the
  • 18:09
    Civil Rights Act and they could actually
  • 18:11
    vote in the 80s you could vote before
  • 18:14
    the Civil Rights Act of course you could
  • 18:16
    I'm just I don't want to belabor this
  • 18:19
    because it's MPR it's stupid hello it's
  • 18:22
    stupid I'm just pointing it out called
  • 18:25
    out for their lack of history I mean
  • 18:27
    when you get kids coming home from
  • 18:28
    school saying they see crap you know
  • 18:31
    Christopher Columbus was a slaver and
  • 18:33
    that's what he's best known for that
  • 18:35
    Martin Luther King Freight freed the
  • 18:38
    slaves my favorite one that I got from
  • 18:40
    one of my no that's a good one right out
  • 18:42
    of grammar school do you have to wonder
  • 18:45
    what he's just kids thinking when he
  • 18:46
    says that I'm thinking he someone told
  • 18:48
    him this
  • 18:50
    so this new knowledge company which is
  • 18:54
    only two years old came out of their
  • 18:56
    non-profit lobbying organization called
  • 19:00
    data for democracy and this was set up
  • 19:03
    when they were all working in the State
  • 19:05
    Department and luckily I was able to
  • 19:07
    find one of these co-founders rene der
  • 19:09
    ésta who co-founded the outfit with
  • 19:13
    jonathan morgan which is a fun name to
  • 19:16
    search on and I happened to pick up a
  • 19:18
    little snippet of an interview that she
  • 19:20
    did with qirush we sure sure yeah so
  • 19:24
    data for democracy is a data science
  • 19:25
    collective there's about 3,000 members
  • 19:28
    and it is much bigger than justice
  • 19:31
    information there's channels in there
  • 19:33
    were people looking at vehicular traffic
  • 19:35
    fatality data where people are looking
  • 19:36
    at gerrymandering voter registration
  • 19:39
    it's just a collective of data
  • 19:41
    scientists who are interested in using
  • 19:42
    their skills to make a difference in the
  • 19:44
    world most of social good projects one
  • 19:46
    of the channels in there is related to
  • 19:48
    disinformation and misinformation when
  • 19:51
    we started realizing the extent to which
  • 19:53
    this was a problem I began doing some
  • 19:55
    advising in Congress and as you know at
  • 19:58
    the time I was actually working at a
  • 19:59
    supply chain logistics company that I
  • 20:01
    had helped found I got to be a little
  • 20:03
    bit difficult explaining why I worked in
  • 20:05
    supply chain logistics but also this was
  • 20:07
    like my my passion project so we decided
  • 20:10
    that we would spin up a policy team at
  • 20:12
    data for democracy whereby we could do a
  • 20:14
    little bit of lobbying as independent
  • 20:18
    tech independent techies basically the
  • 20:22
    new knowledge is a company that builds
  • 20:24
    detection and mitigation technologies
  • 20:27
    specifically for manipulated narratives
  • 20:30
    so there is social listening where
  • 20:33
    brands will get alerted to social you
  • 20:37
    know they have five hundred mentions of
  • 20:38
    coca-cola for example what new knowledge
  • 20:41
    does is we ascertain whether or not
  • 20:43
    those mentions are organic or if they're
  • 20:45
    kind of coordinated campaign to write
  • 20:48
    impact the reputation of the end and I
  • 20:51
    been right around the same time I met
  • 20:54
    Jonathan Morgan who's the founder of new
  • 20:56
    knowledge and we met because we were
  • 20:58
    asked to do some analysis of extreme
  • 21:03
    and lost the plot
  • 21:05
    now she's data for dick no no no no I'll
  • 21:09
    tell you know exactly the opposite they
  • 21:12
    started data for democracy when they
  • 21:14
    were working for Hillary Clinton in the
  • 21:16
    State Department and then as
  • 21:18
    disinformation started to crop up they
  • 21:21
    saw an opportunity for business so they
  • 21:23
    say I don't know if the CIA investment
  • 21:25
    or the Chertoff group or those guys had
  • 21:27
    anything to do with that decision but
  • 21:29
    then they started new knowledge new
  • 21:32
    knowledge and we met because we were
  • 21:35
    asked to do some analysis of extremist
  • 21:38
    content on social media specifically
  • 21:40
    Isis now Jonathan was one of the authors
  • 21:43
    of the ISIS Twitter's they were by
  • 21:45
    Congress they did she doesn't say who in
  • 21:47
    conferences where they really went in
  • 21:49
    there and the same kind of work that
  • 21:50
    Gilad zoton and I had done on mapping
  • 21:53
    the anti-vaccination in the way that
  • 21:55
    they were using kind of affinity
  • 21:56
    marketing and co-opting hashtags and
  • 21:58
    trying to grow their numbers trying to
  • 22:00
    look a lot bigger than they were
  • 22:01
    jonathan was doing very similar types of
  • 22:03
    analysis on Isis and on violent
  • 22:06
    extremism there were a lot of parallels
  • 22:09
    in how the technology was being used you
  • 22:11
    know the conspiracy theorists were
  • 22:13
    relying on these new you know
  • 22:15
    algorithmic amplification to spread
  • 22:21
    their message and Isis was building a
  • 22:23
    virtual Caliphate by which both things
  • 22:25
    at the time were largely being run
  • 22:26
    completely undisturbed because nobody
  • 22:28
    could convince the social platforms that
  • 22:30
    right this was worth they're using them
  • 22:32
    exactly the way they were built in fact
  • 22:35
    the week before the election Jonathan
  • 22:39
    Morgan was tweeting and writing up media
  • 22:41
    and all this is in the show notes
  • 22:42
    writing up medium pages and pages not
  • 22:45
    about Russia no alt-right alt-right KKK
  • 22:49
    that's who are there all over the even
  • 22:51
    though Trump's gonna lose watch out all
  • 22:53
    brightness has captured they've
  • 22:54
    dominated Facebook by not a word about
  • 22:57
    the Russians
  • 22:59
    and so then they obviously were tasked
  • 23:02
    just recently to create this new
  • 23:05
    narrative which you could do with data
  • 23:06
    for anything you want it's it's really a
  • 23:09
    big piece of fluff but what happened
  • 23:11
    this morning and this is why I think
  • 23:12
    it's interesting big bombshell news in
  • 23:16
    the New York Times secret experiment in
  • 23:18
    Alabama Senate race imitated Russian
  • 23:22
    tactics I shall read you a few
  • 23:24
    paragraphs as Russia's online election
  • 23:27
    masa nations came to light last year a
  • 23:29
    group of Democratic tech experts decided
  • 23:31
    to try out similarly deceptive tactics
  • 23:33
    in the fiercely contested Alabama Senate
  • 23:36
    race according to people familiar with
  • 23:38
    the efforts and a report on its results
  • 23:40
    the secret project carried out on
  • 23:42
    Facebook and Twitter was likely to have
  • 23:44
    small to small to have significant
  • 23:46
    effect on the race in which the
  • 23:48
    Democratic candidate was designed to
  • 23:49
    help doug jones edged out the republican
  • 23:52
    Roy Moore but it was a sign that
  • 23:54
    American political operatives of both
  • 23:55
    parties have paid close attention to the
  • 23:58
    Russian methods which some fear may come
  • 23:59
    to taint elections in the United States
  • 24:02
    one participant in the Alabama project
  • 24:04
    jonathan morgan is the chief executive
  • 24:07
    of new knowledge a small cybersecurity
  • 24:09
    firm that wrote a scathing account of
  • 24:11
    russia's social media operations in the
  • 24:13
    2016 election these guys use their own
  • 24:17
    tactics that are the tactics that they
  • 24:20
    accused the russians of - only slightly
  • 24:24
    just slightly too small really to do
  • 24:26
    anything to slightly alter the results
  • 24:29
    of the alabama senate race
  • 24:33
    so to push it towards Stacey
  • 24:36
    no the other got Jones but why okay so
  • 24:39
    what you're saying that he bow yes but
  • 24:42
    how does it make any sense
  • 24:45
    we've already determined that these
  • 24:47
    people are lefties they went to social
  • 24:50
    good they got all the right phrases they
  • 24:52
    want to write buzzwords so why would
  • 24:54
    they why would these same people go into
  • 24:56
    Alabama to screw the lefty no that's no
  • 24:59
    running no that's the white guy you
  • 25:00
    completely misunderstood it okay they
  • 25:04
    right that's why I asked the original
  • 25:06
    question it was designed to help Doug
  • 25:08
    Jones it was designed to help Doug
  • 25:10
    I thought he's the Republic and more is
  • 25:13
    the Republican oh I'm thinking of Stacy
  • 25:15
    I think into the other race this is what
  • 25:17
    what state is this Alabama worse than
  • 25:20
    what was Stacy dead who cares who cares
  • 25:22
    don't get don't get lost on that I do
  • 25:24
    want to know why kids I don't want to
  • 25:26
    lose track of than of the plot here the
  • 25:28
    Stacy the the one woman who ran for
  • 25:31
    something in one of these states I
  • 25:32
    forgot already was the real lefty that
  • 25:37
    should have been helped if they're gonna
  • 25:38
    help anybody
  • 25:39
    she almost won
  • 25:42
    I don't know what that I don't know how
  • 25:45
    that contributes to the story the point
  • 25:47
    but I would have contributed the stories
  • 25:49
    why would you help because I was mixed
  • 25:51
    up would you help because I was mixed
  • 25:51
    oh you presented the story it sounded as
  • 25:54
    though they were helping the room no I
  • 25:55
    read it verbatim from the New York Times
  • 25:58
    okay it verbatim from the New York Times
  • 25:59
    the secret project carried out on
  • 26:01
    Facebook and Twitter was likely too
  • 26:02
    small to have a significant effect on
  • 26:04
    the race in which Democratic candidate
  • 26:06
    was designed to help who Doug Jones who
  • 26:09
    edged out the Republican Roy SPS more
  • 26:11
    okay Roy and Lauren yes so but they
  • 26:16
    await your this is this is not the most
  • 26:18
    recent election there's no more thing
  • 26:20
    yes yes yes yes a special alas now
  • 26:25
    you're with me okay so this color that
  • 26:28
    guy you know okay well that that guy
  • 26:33
    more was the loser I mean this company
  • 26:36
    that's that's beside the point
  • 26:39
    yeah this company that is now being
  • 26:42
    touted as the cyber security experts
  • 26:45
    firm that can prove that the Russians
  • 26:48
    may Trump win by suppressing black
  • 26:50
    Americans millions of them did this
  • 26:53
    exact same thing to a small degree yeah
  • 26:56
    in the special election these guys are
  • 26:59
    they may have done the Russian stuff for
  • 27:01
    all I know but that's what's being
  • 27:03
    touted as the proof the proof that this
  • 27:06
    took place okay well if they did that in
  • 27:09
    that more election that means they did
  • 27:11
    it in these other elections thank you
  • 27:12
    very much it's possible that they're the
  • 27:14
    ones responsible for the woman in
  • 27:16
    Arizona long time they'll vote any
  • 27:18
    Republican in his US Senator somehow
  • 27:21
    this the Democrat won and bado came
  • 27:26
    pretty close to winning in a really
  • 27:28
    staunch Republican state so these guys
  • 27:31
    are using this technology that they've
  • 27:34
    discovered yes they think they have to
  • 27:37
    to slant the elections these guys should
  • 27:39
    be jailed and remember they're in Austin
  • 27:42
    Texas the whole bado thing was knows of
  • 27:44
    Texas the whole bado thing was knows of
  • 27:46
    Texas event obviously and it didn't work
  • 27:48
    so maybe you still need your traditional
  • 27:51
    ways of marketing and mind control which
  • 27:54
    of course they almost worked it almost
  • 27:57
    worked but yeah I would say that is a
  • 28:00
    possibility these guys did that they
  • 28:02
    certainly know how to do it needs to get
  • 28:04
    underway if there's anything in Arizona
  • 28:07
    the Arizona thing is always concerned me
  • 28:09
    it really makes no sense to me that this
  • 28:11
    that is two women one's the Republican
  • 28:14
    wants a Democrat they're Democrats or
  • 28:16
    the Republicans always win that state it
  • 28:18
    was John McCain's seat
  • 28:21
    and it goes to this Democrat for some
  • 28:24
    reason okay
  • 28:25
    well hold on a second so now you're
  • 28:26
    going to tell me that these kind of
  • 28:28
    tactics actually work
  • 28:32
    I'm going to yeah cuz I agree I think
  • 28:35
    they do I think the Internet is a
  • 28:37
    massive mind controlling machine and if
  • 28:40
    you if you have some of the elements
  • 28:41
    right I think you can do you can do a
  • 28:43
    lot particularly if you can meld
  • 28:46
    mainstream media into the into the loop
  • 28:49
    I think absolutely it's always been in
  • 28:51
    the loop well there's no loop without
  • 28:53
    them is that the social networks need
  • 28:55
    the mainstream and mainstream needs to
  • 28:57
    social networks it's a continuous loop
  • 28:59
    that they know I would say that all
  • 29:01
    these contested elections all need to be
  • 29:04
    done over again no but how do you stop
  • 29:11
    that what they did you don't but it's
  • 29:13
    it's the same I mean it's the same thing
  • 29:15
    and it happens everywhere newspapers are
  • 29:17
    you know subjective television
  • 29:20
    advertising political advertising it's
  • 29:22
    what we do we mind-control people in
  • 29:24
    America here take this pill you'll live
  • 29:26
    longer here take this pill you'll live
  • 29:26
    come on this is art this is art foam
  • 29:28
    finger number one
  • 29:31
    and now we do it on Facebook and that's
  • 29:34
    okay I'm totally bought yeah yeah and
  • 29:37
    I'm sure Instagram really did it yeah
  • 29:40
    I'm sure yeah
  • 29:42
    this report is something that every
  • 29:44
    marketer should take a look at because
  • 29:45
    it's it's showing you how you can take
  • 29:48
    data just any old data really and
  • 29:50
    convince your client you did a good job
  • 29:52
    and giving them the answer they wanted
  • 29:53
    to hear with a lot of pretty colors
  • 29:56
    fresh with I could tell that most and
  • 29:58
    they have a lot of examples of these
  • 30:00
    memes that were created they're so
  • 30:03
    stupid I mean I did not see a single
  • 30:06
    meme there that look like it would do
  • 30:07
    anything but somehow the black stir gram
  • 30:10
    Instagram account with 300,000 followers
  • 30:15
    translated to 3 million black Americans
  • 30:18
    staying home then that's why hillary
  • 30:20
    lost its well there's yeah I'm gonna go
  • 30:24
    visit this company I want to meet him
  • 30:25
    now this company I want to meet him
  • 30:27
    right up the street yeah hey when I get
  • 30:30
    a job not any more money you're making
  • 30:32
    on the show thank you guys make me
  • 30:34
    president that would be fun but this of
  • 30:39
    course has to take a lot of these the
  • 30:41
    thing that I think the point is is that
  • 30:43
    the judge Roy Moore thing there's a good
  • 30:46
    example which is I was confused and I'm
  • 30:48
    sorry that's all right
  • 30:49
    it was a is that a lot of these
  • 30:52
    elections at this point because we won't
  • 30:54
    we both know and everybody listens the
  • 30:56
    show knows the Democrat Republican
  • 30:57
    parties are pretty much the same and
  • 30:59
    it's just a matter of the way they slant
  • 31:02
    things yeah and so the elections are
  • 31:04
    closed these are not elections fun just
  • 31:06
    by the same funded by the same people
  • 31:08
    yeah they're closed and they're
  • 31:10
    generally speaking one guy will win or
  • 31:12
    lose by a to one or two percent of the
  • 31:14
    vote and so it doesn't really take much
  • 31:16
    to tweak it a little bit to get the
  • 31:20
    other guy to win uh and that's where I
  • 31:23
    think the danger is but both parties
  • 31:27
    have access to the same way of doing
  • 31:29
    things for a long time that the
  • 31:31
    Republicans always say oh the Democrats
  • 31:33
    are so far ahead of us when it comes to
  • 31:36
    using data to so far ahead of us when it
  • 31:38
    comes to producing documentaries which
  • 31:40
    means that Michael Moore one man so for
  • 31:44
    those very successful well of well
  • 31:46
    watched documentaries and so they you
  • 31:49
    know so now everyone's doing
  • 31:50
    documentaries and their get their
  • 31:51
    computer together but before that during
  • 31:53
    the Reagan administration when Richard I
  • 31:57
    think it's Richard vigor II was a very
  • 31:59
    famous direct marketing guy and who's
  • 32:03
    wrote in a written a number of books on
  • 32:05
    the topic everyone pointed to him say
  • 32:08
    we're never gonna win because we don't
  • 32:10
    have the technology we don't know what
  • 32:11
    we're doing when it comes to direct
  • 32:13
    market right it's just the same you know
  • 32:16
    it's like a bit say what we've learned
  • 32:18
    from learned from Brad Pascal who did
  • 32:20
    the you know from the him was that the
  • 32:23
    the PBS interview we learned that really
  • 32:26
    it was just about scale spending a
  • 32:28
    hundred million dollars yeah spending it
  • 32:31
    on people who would likely vote for
  • 32:33
    Trump that was pretty much all they did
  • 32:36
    so you still need scale
  • 32:38
    you still need lots of money you need to
  • 32:40
    repeat it over and over and over again
  • 32:42
    yeah 300 thousand followers on some
  • 32:46
    obscure Instagram account is not going
  • 32:48
    to keep some grandma who doesn't even
  • 32:50
    know what Instagram is from voting she's
  • 32:54
    not gonna vote because she doesn't like
  • 32:55
    the candidate we already don't vote for
  • 32:58
    Republicans let's your stay home yeah we
  • 33:00
    heard that's exactly what we heard from
  • 33:01
    NPR zone reporting on the same day they
  • 33:03
    were report that buck clearly clearly it
  • 33:06
    was the Russian troll farm very the
  • 33:09
    great messaging they're the best
  • 33:11
    marketers in the world we should hire
  • 33:13
    them yeah to promote No Agenda
  • 33:17
    we should but I find it despicable I
  • 33:20
    wonder if they can ever sell a car in
  • 33:21
    this country there's such a great
  • 33:22
    marketing people yeah so there's your
  • 33:26
    deconstruction of what you'll be hearing
  • 33:28
    a lot of in the coming few days that
  • 33:30
    that's what happened it's a fact Russia
  • 33:34
    did it impeach Trump I
  • 33:40
    seat you must impeach
  • 33:46
    well that's good that was good it was
  • 33:47
    outstanding I couldn't give you a clip
  • 33:48
    of the day nah there's not enough click
  • 33:50
    now there's no clips there's no I do
  • 33:51
    have a couple just a few loose things
  • 33:53
    two loose clips just want to get rid of
  • 33:55
    the short this is since we're talking
  • 33:59
    about collusion with these types of
  • 34:00
    companies collusion with these types of
  • 34:01
    we always had CrowdStrike in our in our
  • 34:06
    sites since they are staffed by
  • 34:09
    Ukrainian Ukrainians who hate Russia and
  • 34:13
    also have a lot of intelligence
  • 34:15
    investment behind them this is Sidney
  • 34:18
    Powell author of license to lie on Comey
  • 34:21
    and the CrowdStrike collusion sitting I
  • 34:23
    think it goes back to 2012 Lou what we
  • 34:26
    really need disclosed is the FISA Court
  • 34:28
    decision and to know who the private
  • 34:30
    contractors are that mr. Comey gave
  • 34:32
    unlimited access to the raw FISA Intel
  • 34:35
    to I think one of them was fusion GPS
  • 34:38
    the other might have been CrowdStrike
  • 34:40
    they were accessing the NSA database
  • 34:42
    probably for private profit it's going
  • 34:45
    to be the scandal of the century we need
  • 34:47
    to know who those people are
  • 34:49
    yeah they were accessing the NSA
  • 34:52
    database for private Ukrainian Ukrainian
  • 34:55
    mafia for private Ukrainian Ukrainian
  • 34:57
    it's too bad John McCain's dead cuz he's
  • 35:00
    the link to all that that guy was the
  • 35:03
    link with everything if he's dead
  • 35:05
    sometimes I wonder quickie here last one
  • 35:09
    this is are not really quick eaten min
  • 35:10
    and a half Washington Post Greg Miller I
  • 35:13
    guess he's a famous guys neither like
  • 35:15
    one of their big writers well anywhere
  • 35:17
    the name Miller is always possibly
  • 35:19
    famous okay The Times in particular yeah
  • 35:22
    are they where the Washington Post was
  • 35:24
    one of the first companies to get a
  • 35:27
    preview waffleh waffleh waffleh to get a
  • 35:29
    preview look of the steel dossier
  • 35:32
    dossier and here's what he said about it
  • 35:34
    in the book is Michael Steele the author
  • 35:38
    of the the infamous dossier and he
  • 35:41
    secretly went to the Washington Post in
  • 35:43
    September 2016 when he was trying to get
  • 35:46
    word out about some of his findings they
  • 35:48
    met with a couple of reporters there for
  • 35:50
    two hours I I don't think you
  • 35:52
    you were warned about the two of your
  • 35:55
    colleagues and they elaborated on as
  • 35:57
    dossier oh and of course what some of
  • 36:00
    the things that that that are in that
  • 36:02
    dossier have proven true other elements
  • 36:05
    haven't you'll notice they don't
  • 36:08
    actually mention which parts have proven
  • 36:10
    true but he goes into the ones that have
  • 36:11
    not been proven at least not yet but
  • 36:16
    what do you think of the dossier overall
  • 36:19
    I think that overall like it it's in its
  • 36:22
    broadest its most accurate and its
  • 36:25
    broadest most sweeping assertions and
  • 36:27
    conclusions it's the narrower you get in
  • 36:31
    the more particularly you get the harder
  • 36:33
    it is to figure out whether it's on the
  • 36:36
    mark so you know the very first memo
  • 36:40
    that he writes it that is now part of
  • 36:43
    you know this collection of memos that
  • 36:44
    we call the dossier talks about Russia
  • 36:47
    is waging a campaign to interfere in the
  • 36:49
    American election with the goal of
  • 36:50
    helping to elect Donald Trump I mean
  • 36:53
    he's writing that way before any of us
  • 36:54
    writing it in wait before he started
  • 36:57
    reaching that conclusion so he's way
  • 36:59
    ahead down you know the the thing that
  • 37:03
    people I think
  • 37:04
    remember the most vividly about the the
  • 37:07
    dossier is you know the idea that
  • 37:09
    there's a tape somewhere some compromise
  • 37:11
    of Trump consorting with prostitutes the
  • 37:13
    ritz-carlton or Moscow I mean could be
  • 37:17
    having given what we know about Trump
  • 37:19
    but searching I would be outside the
  • 37:22
    realm of the possible that this happened
  • 37:24
    but we've seen no evidence we have we
  • 37:26
    still II and it's not for lack of trying
  • 37:28
    I mean there's other material in the
  • 37:29
    dossier we we literally spent weeks and
  • 37:32
    months trying to run down there's an
  • 37:34
    assertion in there that Michael Cohen
  • 37:35
    Trump's lawyer went to Prague to settle
  • 37:39
    payments that were needed at the end of
  • 37:41
    the campaign
  • 37:42
    we sent reporters through every Hotel in
  • 37:45
    Prague through all over the place to
  • 37:47
    random just to try to figure out if he
  • 37:49
    was ever there
  • 37:50
    yeah a question I have a question about
  • 37:53
    that year is that is that really their
  • 37:55
    job as journalists to send reporters to
  • 38:00
    every Hotel to basically help the Muller
  • 38:03
    investigation is that really their job
  • 38:06
    was it to help the Muller investing is
  • 38:09
    it but even as journalists I mean of
  • 38:12
    course Washington Post so they always
  • 38:13
    think that they are and you know all the
  • 38:15
    president's men that this is you know
  • 38:16
    the the the Watergate scandal so that's
  • 38:19
    why they put I mean they put a lot of
  • 38:20
    resources into this for you know
  • 38:22
    companies that or an industry that says
  • 38:25
    they don't have that they put a lot of
  • 38:26
    resources into it
  • 38:28
    and I this made me think isn't the job
  • 38:32
    of journalists in the connected world
  • 38:34
    isn't it just invalid
  • 38:38
    let me explain let me explain let me
  • 38:40
    explain - if you have events right news
  • 38:42
    is an event an event takes place and
  • 38:44
    then it really becomes an event based
  • 38:46
    upon you know how big it is or how
  • 38:48
    important people think it is for every
  • 38:51
    event let's just take a air crash
  • 38:53
    airplane there's online there's hundreds
  • 38:58
    of people who know exactly what's going
  • 39:00
    on that are writing about it
  • 39:03
    and a journalist these days all I see
  • 39:05
    them do is troll Twitter to find these
  • 39:08
    people and then to rewrite their shitty
  • 39:11
    story which is always wrong because of
  • 39:14
    page you know constraints and and just
  • 39:16
    not hearing things right not
  • 39:18
    understanding because they're not the
  • 39:19
    experts the journalists are experts at
  • 39:21
    nothing I think that used to be a good
  • 39:23
    thing I think it's the only thing really
  • 39:25
    you only need an editor
  • 39:27
    in an editor and then you can put some
  • 39:29
    opinion around something journalist I
  • 39:31
    think it's an invalid occupation it is
  • 39:35
    okay if we're doing it I'm not a
  • 39:37
    journalist if we're doing it I'm not a
  • 39:38
    I wasn't schooled as a journalist you
  • 39:40
    don't know that no no I'm a podcaster no
  • 39:44
    you're a journalist hot casters are
  • 39:46
    journalism what you did today with that
  • 39:47
    initial report is all journalism so just
  • 39:50
    because you don't like to call yourself
  • 39:51
    a journalist because you think it's an
  • 39:52
    insulting name because you have a higher
  • 39:55
    a higher view of yourself podcaster for
  • 39:58
    example which is a higher it's higher
  • 40:00
    than Journal higher than journalism yes
  • 40:02
    so you're actually bringing me down no
  • 40:05
    you bring yourself down
  • 40:08
    by doing good journalism damn it
  • 40:12
    boiled again
  • 40:16
    you're doing what they should be doing
  • 40:18
    these guys I mean the whole show that we
  • 40:20
    do is what other people should be doing
  • 40:21
    nobody's doing it they don't care - they
  • 40:23
    got a hidden agenda not so hidden secret
  • 40:28
    secret oh man anyway that'll take you
  • 40:33
    through Monday I'm sure they're still be
  • 40:35
    whining and crying about it because of
  • 40:42
    Russians please please pretty much
  • 40:48
    brexit like do you have any updates I
  • 40:50
    got some a few things up there friendly
  • 40:55
    all caving into the idea of having
  • 40:56
    another I want to play the Farraj cliff
  • 40:59
    I was gonna play some clips from the
  • 41:01
    leave me a sleeve conference yes I did
  • 41:03
    watch that thanks for sending the link
  • 41:05
    yeah I thought it was very educational
  • 41:06
    yeah and here's Faraj at the very end
  • 41:09
    giving his he's not the last speaker but
  • 41:12
    he's which I think called him a little
  • 41:14
    bit but he has he brings up the thing
  • 41:17
    that we've been bringing up since day
  • 41:18
    one two years ago about right rescinding
  • 41:21
    it is they know that is impossible for
  • 41:24
    this country to accept they have managed
  • 41:28
    in the past to engineer second
  • 41:30
    referendums in Denmark they've done it
  • 41:33
    twice in Ireland and my message folks
  • 41:37
    tonight as much as I don't want a second
  • 41:41
    referendum it will be wrong of us here
  • 41:44
    on a leave means lead platform not to
  • 41:49
    get ready not to prepare for the
  • 41:53
    worst-case scenario you know we must not
  • 41:57
    we must not fail in our preparation we
  • 42:01
    really must not do that because I fear
  • 42:04
    they'll do this to us if I'm wrong
  • 42:07
    we've lost nothing but this organization
  • 42:09
    which I joined a few months ago and
  • 42:12
    which has held these events up and down
  • 42:14
    the country we've now got to move into a
  • 42:17
    different gear we've now got to start
  • 42:19
    forming branches and active groups all
  • 42:22
    over this country we've got to be out
  • 42:25
    there this country we've got to be out
  • 42:26
    too little too late maybe Ferrari AC
  • 42:32
    gave it I have a quickie Intermezzo this
  • 42:35
    is a conservative politician Andrea
  • 42:38
    leads him with a the truth always wants
  • 42:42
    to come out moment we love these on the
  • 42:44
    No Agenda show you can't stop the truth
  • 42:47
    from slipping out of your piehole there
  • 42:49
    is a deal on the table but Parliament
  • 42:51
    doesn't support it raising the risk
  • 42:53
    some argue of leaving without an
  • 42:56
    agreement preparing for eventualities
  • 42:58
    we're certainly not intending to have no
  • 43:00
    deal brexit but Parliament does need to
  • 43:03
    vote for a deal otherwise the legal
  • 43:06
    default position is we will ahead for no
  • 43:07
    brexit No Deal in March 2019 no break No
  • 43:15
    Deal interesting no brexit whoops yes
  • 43:22
    yeah there's a you got moron I got a
  • 43:25
    couple more I think that my thrush thing
  • 43:29
    is the only thing I'm looking up and
  • 43:31
    down this list that I have about the
  • 43:34
    brexit I think that's it you've got
  • 43:35
    Brett you breakfast against all yours
  • 43:37
    okay I've got well you know what what is
  • 43:41
    being touted as this is what it's all
  • 43:43
    about which I don't believe for a second
  • 43:45
    is the Northern Ireland Ireland
  • 43:47
    situation with the border and briefly
  • 43:49
    Ireland is staying in the European Union
  • 43:52
    so even though that's completely
  • 43:54
    separated from the mainland that is seen
  • 43:56
    as a a border a EU border with the UK as
  • 44:01
    Northern Ireland is with the UK now this
  • 44:03
    has not been an enforced border or any
  • 44:05
    kind of barricades for 30 years it was a
  • 44:07
    right mess back in the 70s and 80s and I
  • 44:11
    remember living in Europe man with IRA
  • 44:13
    blowing shit up everywhere visiting
  • 44:17
    London and they blew up a bunch of
  • 44:19
    things around us and they David we
  • 44:21
    wanted to go to take the kids to the big
  • 44:22
    toy store Henley's whatever it's called
  • 44:24
    and that blew it up where they blew up
  • 44:26
    to something in front of it yeah so it's
  • 44:28
    you know they've had a lot of and
  • 44:30
    they've settled that and I think it's
  • 44:32
    been very calm and you know there is no
  • 44:34
    border very calm and you know there is no
  • 44:35
    in fact I have a report from euronews
  • 44:38
    and the reporters were on the scene
  • 44:40
    about the fears of the return of a
  • 44:43
    border post brexit the Irish border more
  • 44:46
    open than almost any in the world with
  • 44:49
    more roads crossing it than between the
  • 44:51
    u.s. and Canada or Russia and Eastern
  • 44:54
    Europe the border runs right down the
  • 44:57
    middle of this river and here in the
  • 44:59
    tongue it's invisible I'm crossing now
  • 45:02
    from Ireland into the UK easy and that's
  • 45:06
    the way people here want it to stay
  • 45:08
    today a radios across the border maybe
  • 45:11
    five times you've been across five times
  • 45:13
    today yeah and that's perfectly normal
  • 45:14
    perfectly normal for anybody here so
  • 45:17
    road closures be a disaster after breaks
  • 45:21
    it this will be Britain's only land
  • 45:24
    border with the European Union there are
  • 45:26
    real fears here that of Britain crashes
  • 45:29
    out of the EU without a deal a so-called
  • 45:33
    hard border will be imposed customs
  • 45:36
    officials police soldiers or two
  • 45:38
    countries yes it was militarized yes and
  • 45:41
    it was a pain in the neck absolutely
  • 45:43
    absolutely and that's all gone reviving
  • 45:46
    a guarded border wouldn't be easy this
  • 45:49
    church is in the UK it's graveyard is in
  • 45:53
    Ireland the old border posts are
  • 45:56
    abandoned the old border posts are
  • 45:57
    but hardline British brexit ears would
  • 46:00
    put them back so Britain could be free
  • 46:02
    forever of EU ties and that prospect
  • 46:06
    stirs fears here of violence you put up
  • 46:11
    physical infrastructure that people can
  • 46:13
    protest at or god forbid somebody can
  • 46:15
    attack the genie gets out of the bottle
  • 46:17
    very quick the genie of violence yes
  • 46:20
    possibly yes it might no it'll never be
  • 46:22
    we hope it never happened it'll never be
  • 46:25
    on the scale but you would see sporadic
  • 46:27
    attacks absolutely yeah I don't think
  • 46:28
    you have to worry about it because the
  • 46:30
    liberal world order of the new world
  • 46:33
    order the global order the globalists
  • 46:35
    they do not want this to happen and
  • 46:37
    they're going to do everything they can
  • 46:38
    and in fact nothing can take place no
  • 46:42
    vote no parliamentary vote nothing can
  • 46:44
    happen before January 19th because the
  • 46:47
    propaganda needs to drop on January 19th
  • 46:50
    and this propaganda is produced by HBO
  • 46:54
    and it is called brexit Benedict
  • 46:58
    Cumberbatch is the star so it's they
  • 47:00
    pulled out all the stops for this it
  • 47:02
    took a little piece from the trailer
  • 47:04
    they have not to ask the biggest
  • 47:06
    question in a generation in out and we
  • 47:10
    need a leader
  • 47:11
    [Music] a leader
  • 47:16
    how to change the course of history we
  • 47:18
    have to hook the political system
  • 47:20
    package I'm talking about ordering the
  • 47:22
    matrix of politics the social media
  • 47:24
    platforms are designed to find
  • 47:26
    like-minded people our software will
  • 47:28
    locate things target people that know
  • 47:29
    campaign is ever targeted before people
  • 47:32
    who don't and have never voted three
  • 47:35
    million extra voters have no idea exists
  • 47:42
    this is resurgence against the
  • 47:45
    establishment way to build something
  • 47:47
    that will restock the odds in our favor
  • 47:48
    what are your expectations realistically
  • 47:51
    to create the biggest big loss since the
  • 47:53
    fall of the Berlin Wall very large
  • 47:58
    let's take control so it seems like
  • 48:03
    they're going to show us very similar to
  • 48:06
    the three million blacks in America that
  • 48:09
    data and Cambridge analytic and Steve
  • 48:12
    Bannon and the Russians been said that
  • 48:15
    they manipulated everything so three
  • 48:18
    million people were found who never
  • 48:20
    voted who hated everything and wanted to
  • 48:23
    Briggs it
  • 48:26
    it's really just quite astounding who
  • 48:29
    got paid money to do this this is HBO so
  • 48:31
    the time warner owen owns HBO do they
  • 48:35
    not sigh think this to own HBO I think
  • 48:37
    they still do yeah yes Hollywood
  • 48:40
    Hollywood Hollywood you get with elites
  • 48:43
    they don't want any of this stuff going
  • 48:44
    on they're not working for the public
  • 48:45
    anymore you looking for the elitist but
  • 48:48
    also this is played by Sherlock Holmes
  • 48:50
    this is the fun of the magic yeah
  • 48:53
    Cumberbatch you're starring in this
  • 48:55
    thing you're starring in this
  • 48:56
    Oh cover bash what you should be
  • 48:57
    boycotted ah yes Wow yeah yeah the
  • 49:04
    propaganda is real
  • 49:06
    funny quick funny quote just the eight
  • 49:09
    seconder from Parliament I think someone
  • 49:12
    was talking about a parliamentary
  • 49:15
    ejection but it came out wrong and
  • 49:18
    here's what the prime minister said the
  • 49:23
    parliamentary ejaculation but we know it
  • 49:39
    works ejaculation but we know it
  • 49:40
    we know that the lowbrow stuff works
  • 49:42
    this is what you have to do that's all
  • 49:45
    people will remember from this expose so
  • 49:55
    yeah I told you I've been having fun
  • 49:57
    with the news this is the interesting
  • 49:58
    stuff going you got something surely no
  • 50:03
    I got nothing I get mostly small stuff
  • 50:05
    let's talk about a couple of things that
  • 50:07
    are important besides brexit just get to
  • 50:12
    something and now for something
  • 50:14
    important something important to us I
  • 50:18
    think we got brexit covered yeah of
  • 50:20
    course we've always had brexit cover we
  • 50:22
    knew it was going off in the get it's
  • 50:24
    not fair we as you pointed out a couple
  • 50:27
    weeks ago it's we don't play with a you
  • 50:29
    know the same deck of cards as everybody
  • 50:31
    else we're from the future so we know
  • 50:33
    what's gonna happen so this was a
  • 50:35
    democracy now has to say about Flynn ah
  • 50:38
    yes now has to say about Flynn ah
  • 50:40
    Flynn in Washington DC a federal judge
  • 50:43
    has delayed sentencing for Michael Flynn
  • 50:45
    president Trump's former national
  • 50:46
    security adviser after expressing
  • 50:48
    disgust that Flynn lied to federal
  • 50:51
    investigators Flynn's acknowledged he
  • 50:52
    lied about his meeting with Russia's
  • 50:54
    ambassador during the 2016 presidential
  • 50:56
    campaign admitted he worked as an under
  • 50:59
    edges for an agent for turkeys
  • 51:01
    government in an extraordinary to our
  • 51:03
    hearing US District Judge Emmett
  • 51:06
    Sullivan Tuesday blasted Flynn for his
  • 51:08
    conduct pointing to an American flag
  • 51:10
    inside the courtroom as he said arguably
  • 51:13
    you sold your country out judge Sullivan
  • 51:15
    offered to hold off on sentencing Flynn
  • 51:17
    if he agreed to continue to aid
  • 51:19
    dural prosecutors with special counsel
  • 51:21
    Robert Miller's probe and other criminal
  • 51:23
    investigations Miller's probe and other criminal
  • 51:24
    Faline agreed to the deal delaying any
  • 51:26
    sentencing until at least March the
  • 51:28
    court sees Flint's passport and ordered
  • 51:30
    him to remain within 50 miles of
  • 51:31
    Washington DC at the White House press
  • 51:34
    secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders
  • 51:35
    deflected questions about Flynn's court
  • 51:37
    appearance saying only that the White
  • 51:39
    House is concerned that Flynn lied to
  • 51:40
    the FBI I have some thoughts on this
  • 51:44
    what I have some thoughts on this yeah
  • 51:47
    well the couple I had given a few
  • 51:50
    initial thoughts I first of all when
  • 51:52
    this guy this judge who's apparently was
  • 51:54
    like shopped because he hates a trump
  • 52:01
    well we don't know that yeah he's there
  • 52:03
    he's the he'd he'd did some other
  • 52:05
    rulings against trustee back up
  • 52:07
    according to the right-wingers he was
  • 52:10
    shocked by Flynn's people and the Flynn
  • 52:12
    lawyers who thought he might be a minha
  • 52:15
    boat because he was a reagan appointee
  • 52:17
    got shot believe he may have been a bush
  • 52:19
    but I think was Reagan he's old and so
  • 52:22
    they found this guy and then immediately
  • 52:23
    he goes into the timeline of the FBI and
  • 52:26
    how they indicted Flynn showing that you
  • 52:28
    know he'd lied that they didn't file a
  • 52:30
    report for weeks and it was really very
  • 52:32
    poorly done FBI work but Flynn you know
  • 52:37
    rolled over because it would they
  • 52:38
    supposedly threatened his family with
  • 52:41
    you know we're gonna prosecute your kid
  • 52:43
    if you don't drive all over okay so he
  • 52:46
    did that and so it looked like the judge
  • 52:48
    according to the right-wingers was gonna
  • 52:50
    you know to kick this whole thing out
  • 52:52
    and maybe indict Flynn and I have indict
  • 52:55
    Mueller he's gonna end up in Jim Euler
  • 52:58
    is gonna end up in jail yeah sure so I'm
  • 53:01
    listening all this and then all of a
  • 53:03
    sudden this turns around the other way
  • 53:04
    where they guys not even concentrating
  • 53:07
    on the line to the FBI but other stuff
  • 53:09
    that he thinks the FBI should have
  • 53:11
    indicted him for yeah and now it's
  • 53:13
    Flynn's in a heap of trouble well so the
  • 53:16
    show has a little bit he's involved with
  • 53:18
    this a little bit I think
  • 53:20
    hey you recall that just around the time
  • 53:23
    Trump was elected through our military
  • 53:26
    intelligence channels we got a request
  • 53:28
    about Mark Hall's movie which is killing
  • 53:33
    ed about the Gulen movement and
  • 53:37
    financing of the harmony schools and all
  • 53:39
    of the would he call them via charter
  • 53:43
    charters yet charter schools and and all
  • 53:46
    this infiltration and of course it was
  • 53:48
    Petula Gulen is the CIA protected
  • 53:51
    Turkish cleric who's been hiding out in
  • 53:54
    the Poconos and Flynn wanted to see this
  • 53:56
    movie and so I connected everybody with
  • 53:58
    not connected everybody and so they saw
  • 54:01
    this movie and we both saw it too yeah
  • 54:05
    that's a great movie it's something that
  • 54:07
    it's not just about it's not about
  • 54:09
    flaming turkey is it very who them but
  • 54:11
    yeah you have to see this movie called
  • 54:12
    killing ed
  • 54:14
    and but this the evening before this
  • 54:16
    saflan sentencing to associates of Flynn
  • 54:20
    were indicted on conspiracy charges
  • 54:22
    related to four Tula Gulen and this may
  • 54:26
    also have to do with the failed coup and
  • 54:28
    it's possible that Flynn was also
  • 54:31
    involved in that here is a a quick
  • 54:35
    little back and forth at the Doha forum
  • 54:37
    this is the turkey Foreign Minister and
  • 54:40
    listen closely to what he I may have to
  • 54:43
    stop and tell you what he says another
  • 54:45
    question that's been revolving around
  • 54:47
    these conversations has been the fate of
  • 54:49
    Fotolia Gulen and what will happen to
  • 54:51
    him next
  • 54:53
    has there been progress made by your
  • 54:55
    government in discussions to have him
  • 54:56
    extradited back to Turkey well everybody
  • 55:00
    was focusing on this pastor Branson who
  • 55:03
    is also a CIA agent
  • 55:04
    I'm also very straightforward person
  • 55:06
    like our Dogon
  • 55:07
    I like this what we were talking about
  • 55:10
    he said that did the pastor pastor Brown
  • 55:13
    everyone was focused on he's a CIA agent
  • 55:14
    let's just be honest about it yeah
  • 55:16
    that's the guy that they would they were
  • 55:17
    holding and then we did a bunch of deals
  • 55:20
    to get him released
  • 55:22
    Trump was all and forget him released oh
  • 55:25
    yeah who is also a CIA agent
  • 55:28
    I'm most a very straightforward person
  • 55:30
    like a dog on but it was a minor issue
  • 55:33
    in our relations we have more serious
  • 55:36
    problems we had one of them is the u.s.
  • 55:39
    supposed to YPG PKK in Syria which are
  • 55:42
    posing threat to our national security
  • 55:45
    and the second serious problem is the
  • 55:48
    perpetrator of the attempted coup the
  • 55:51
    leader of this terrorist organization
  • 55:52
    are still in the United States but
  • 55:56
    recently I have seen the credible
  • 55:58
    investigation of the FBI in several
  • 56:01
    states and they have actually seen or
  • 56:04
    noticed the darkness of this
  • 56:06
    organization and how they have been
  • 56:09
    violating the u.s. laws including tax
  • 56:12
    fraud visa fraud and also some other
  • 56:15
    illegal activities and how professional
  • 56:17
    they are this is what FBI is telling us
  • 56:20
    so what our expectation is also be very
  • 56:23
    clear we have
  • 56:24
    the bilateral agreements and
  • 56:26
    international law is there and the this
  • 56:29
    guy and the other others belong to this
  • 56:33
    organization 84 names that we have
  • 56:37
    requested United States to extradite
  • 56:38
    they should be extradited to Turkey
  • 56:40
    do you believe you're closer to having
  • 56:42
    that happen president Trump told
  • 56:44
    everyone that they have been working on
  • 56:46
    that so here's that here's the data
  • 56:49
    points we have so Flynn is just the tip
  • 56:52
    of the iceberg these Associates of him
  • 56:55
    were ex associates who were indicted the
  • 56:57
    evening before his sentencing which I
  • 56:59
    believe delayed his sentencing comes at
  • 57:01
    the same time
  • 57:02
    Trump announces were pulling out of
  • 57:04
    Syria of course the YPG is you just
  • 57:06
    heard this is a big problem for Turkey
  • 57:08
    they hate the Kurds they want to go down
  • 57:09
    there and they want to you know get rid
  • 57:11
    of them they want to run Syria or
  • 57:14
    whoever now I don't even know who's who
  • 57:16
    and who's friends with who add to that
  • 57:18
    would that we just requested to sell a
  • 57:21
    Patriot missile system to Turkey I
  • 57:24
    believe that Trump has done some kind of
  • 57:27
    deal or he's in the middle I know if
  • 57:29
    it's his deal he's in the middle of some
  • 57:31
    kind of deal so that he's deal and
  • 57:33
    Turkey is really it the way they wanted
  • 57:36
    because they want to be the center of
  • 57:37
    the universe the way they were when it
  • 57:38
    was Constantinople and the Ottoman
  • 57:40
    Empire and this is all related khashoggi
  • 57:43
    is related Flynn and the Glenn
  • 57:46
    extradition is related there's some deal
  • 57:49
    and really I think that we're just
  • 57:52
    pulling I think Trump is pulling us out
  • 57:54
    of everything let him have it
  • 57:55
    well let's listen to that clip then this
  • 57:58
    is all American troops at a Syria part
  • 58:01
    one all American troops in Syria are
  • 58:05
    leaving the president tweeted we have
  • 58:07
    defeated Isis in Syria my only reason
  • 58:09
    for being there during the Trump
  • 58:10
    presidency the first Americans arrived
  • 58:12
    in October of 2015 they have since
  • 58:15
    helped push Isis into a few isolated
  • 58:17
    areas about 2,000 American troops are
  • 58:20
    there now but today's announcement still
  • 58:22
    stunned some top Republicans who believe
  • 58:25
    more work needs to be done David Martin
  • 58:27
    begins our coverage the president
  • 58:30
    claimed Isis in Syria is defeated so our
  • 58:33
    boys are young women our men
  • 58:37
    they're all coming back and they're
  • 58:39
    coming back now
  • 58:40
    we won and it is true the territory Isis
  • 58:43
    once held the so-called Caliphate has
  • 58:45
    been reduced to just a few pockets but
  • 58:49
    the fighting remains fierce last week
  • 58:52
    the US and its allies launched more than
  • 58:54
    200 air and artillery strikes many of
  • 58:57
    them called in by American special
  • 58:59
    operations forces working with local
  • 59:01
    fighters on the ground the president's
  • 59:04
    decision was denounced by members of his
  • 59:06
    own party I doubt there's anybody in
  • 59:08
    there Republican caucus in the Senate
  • 59:09
    that just hasn't stunned by this
  • 59:12
    precipitous decision that just like you
  • 59:15
    woke up in the morning and made it
  • 59:17
    Republican Senator Lindsey Graham called
  • 59:19
    for hearings to determine whether the
  • 59:20
    pullout is based on military advice or
  • 59:23
    in spite of it the abrupt withdrawal
  • 59:26
    runs counter to US strategy has
  • 59:28
    explained little more than a week ago by
  • 59:30
    a senior State Department official I
  • 59:32
    think it's fair to say Americans will
  • 59:34
    remain on the ground after the physical
  • 59:36
    defeat of the caliphate until we have
  • 59:37
    the pieces in place to ensure that that
  • 59:38
    defeat is enduring Joint Chiefs chairman
  • 59:41
    General Joseph Dunford recently
  • 59:42
    explained what that would take we
  • 59:44
    estimate for example about 35 to 40,000
  • 59:48
    local forces have to be trained and
  • 59:50
    equipped in order to provide stability
  • 59:52
    we're probably somewhere along the line
  • 59:55
    of 20% through the training of those
  • 59:57
    forces for Dunford that meant US troops
  • 1:00:01
    wouldn't be leaving anytime soon but the
  • 1:00:03
    president's mind appears to have been
  • 1:00:05
    made up since March we're going to be
  • 1:00:07
    coming out of there real soon gonna get
  • 1:00:09
    back to our country where we belong so
  • 1:00:12
    after four years and the loss of four
  • 1:00:15
    American servicemen senior military
  • 1:00:17
    leaders are scrambling to get all US
  • 1:00:20
    troops out of Syria in 30 days or as
  • 1:00:23
    soon after as possible they're also
  • 1:00:25
    wondering what comes next since the
  • 1:00:27
    president Trump has said his instincts
  • 1:00:30
    tell him to pull out of Afghanistan as
  • 1:00:32
    well him to pull out of Afghanistan as
  • 1:00:32
    Jeff David Martin at the Pentagon forced
  • 1:00:35
    David thank you so that's the kind of
  • 1:00:38
    the basic written that don't forget see
  • 1:00:39
    by CBS is the mouthpiece of the CIA for
  • 1:00:43
    all practical purposes yep so we're
  • 1:00:45
    getting good information so that's
  • 1:00:47
    listen to what Holly Williams the the
  • 1:00:49
    foreign correspondent who's floating
  • 1:00:52
    around she's always an Istanbul
  • 1:00:54
    reporting from every place Alice but
  • 1:00:56
    here she is and this has got a little
  • 1:00:58
    kicker on it that was kind of
  • 1:00:59
    interesting okay Holly Williams has
  • 1:01:01
    reported extensively on Syria having
  • 1:01:03
    visited the country ten times now Holly
  • 1:01:05
    joins us from Istanbul tonight Holly
  • 1:01:07
    first of all what does this mean for the
  • 1:01:09
    fight against Isis well Jeff a local
  • 1:01:13
    official from the region in Syria where
  • 1:01:15
    the US has its bases warned us tonight
  • 1:01:17
    that the American withdrawal could give
  • 1:01:19
    Isis an opportunity to regroup and come
  • 1:01:22
    back now America's partners on the
  • 1:01:24
    ground are the Syrian democratic forces
  • 1:01:26
    or SDF and they now control around a
  • 1:01:29
    quarter of Syria and we have witnessed
  • 1:01:32
    the SDF beat Isis back to a few holdouts
  • 1:01:34
    in the desert and bring relative
  • 1:01:36
    stability to the areas that they control
  • 1:01:39
    and that will be more difficult once
  • 1:01:41
    those American troops have gone home and
  • 1:01:43
    so then what about other potential
  • 1:01:45
    consequences for the region well the
  • 1:01:48
    American withdrawal could also open the
  • 1:01:50
    door to Turkey which has threatened to
  • 1:01:52
    launch a military operation in SDF
  • 1:01:54
    territory more fighting could bring more
  • 1:01:57
    instability to the region also the
  • 1:02:00
    American withdrawal could force the SDF
  • 1:02:02
    to embrace the Syrian regime as well as
  • 1:02:05
    its backers Iran and Russia simply to
  • 1:02:08
    ensure their own survival finally the
  • 1:02:10
    American withdrawal could send a message
  • 1:02:12
    to other groups both here in the Middle
  • 1:02:15
    East and elsewhere that the u.s. cannot
  • 1:02:17
    be counted on to stand by its partners
  • 1:02:20
    it's Jeff
  • 1:02:21
    The Hollies so great to get your
  • 1:02:23
    perspective tonight thank you okay hold
  • 1:02:25
    on a second
  • 1:02:26
    she has her conclusion at the end is
  • 1:02:29
    that this is some sort of indication
  • 1:02:31
    that the United States will not stand by
  • 1:02:33
    its partners so I'm asking in this
  • 1:02:37
    situation in Syria who are its partners
  • 1:02:40
    well the odds of a bunch of ragtag FTF
  • 1:02:43
    FDS guys are bright they're not like a
  • 1:02:46
    nation-state they're a bunch of guys
  • 1:02:48
    that we probably created so who was
  • 1:02:51
    whose partners well house is sending a
  • 1:02:53
    bad message about us not standing by our
  • 1:02:55
    partner interestingly we only have one
  • 1:02:57
    partner in the region and that is NATO
  • 1:02:59
    member Turkey yeah that's our actual
  • 1:03:02
    partner yeah well the turkeys not in
  • 1:03:05
    NATO yet you know yes they're not and
  • 1:03:10
    they're not in the interview room you
  • 1:03:11
    know member that we have to yeah so
  • 1:03:13
    we're standing by our partners if we cut
  • 1:03:14
    it loose and let them take over it's
  • 1:03:16
    just so interesting that we have this
  • 1:03:17
    incredible so the reason why I know
  • 1:03:20
    there's something going on is when you
  • 1:03:22
    get Lindsey Graham you know this still
  • 1:03:25
    John McCain holdover and others saying
  • 1:03:28
    this is crazy we got to stay in we got
  • 1:03:30
    to stay in Syria which you know the
  • 1:03:32
    Congress did this is still under the
  • 1:03:33
    2001 state of emergency laws that the
  • 1:03:37
    president this is bullshit
  • 1:03:39
    we shouldn't be there we shouldn't be in
  • 1:03:41
    Afghanistan one of our producers sent a
  • 1:03:43
    a recommendation for an author I forget
  • 1:03:46
    the name of in this book I'll put it in
  • 1:03:48
    the show notes need to be in Afghanistan
  • 1:03:49
    but the well he says that this author's
  • 1:03:53
    concerned in poppies well then his
  • 1:03:56
    concept is that perhaps because shale
  • 1:04:01
    oil production has reaches its
  • 1:04:03
    break-even point that the u.s. really
  • 1:04:05
    does not need oil from anywhere we're
  • 1:04:08
    going to become the biggest oil producer
  • 1:04:10
    that the idea is Trump is possibly
  • 1:04:13
    letting it all go
  • 1:04:14
    let everyone argue it out and fight each
  • 1:04:17
    other and kill each other in the middle
  • 1:04:18
    east and will be completely isolated
  • 1:04:20
    from that could be it's a simple enough
  • 1:04:23
    strategy that he would come up with it
  • 1:04:26
    not a bad strategy except for the
  • 1:04:29
    poppies that's an issue I mean you got
  • 1:04:30
    it you got these are the poppies I
  • 1:04:31
    brought they released those four
  • 1:04:34
    superstar creeps from Gitmo yeah who we
  • 1:04:38
    initially assumed they were released for
  • 1:04:40
    a reason and everything s is supposed to
  • 1:04:42
    takeover the poppy business but I mean
  • 1:04:44
    that was our thesis yeah but have they
  • 1:04:47
    done it I don't know I didn't never
  • 1:04:49
    heard anything about it but do we need
  • 1:04:51
    to still be there guarding the poppy
  • 1:04:53
    fields or can they just run this thing
  • 1:04:54
    without us well seeing his Trump is
  • 1:04:56
    probably not he's in a lot of business
  • 1:04:57
    my don't think he's in the in the
  • 1:04:59
    narcotics business he doesn't have a
  • 1:05:02
    kick I don't think he's been read in on
  • 1:05:03
    what we're up to over there he doesn't
  • 1:05:05
    have a kick back off of that deal so you
  • 1:05:07
    know maybe the people who are protesting
  • 1:05:09
    all these things have some some other
  • 1:05:12
    agendas that we run we're alone on yeah
  • 1:05:15
    well Z money so keep your eye on Turkey
  • 1:05:19
    we've always said it I'm sure mark hall
  • 1:05:21
    uh I have a call scheduled with him
  • 1:05:23
    we're gonna talk soon because he's he
  • 1:05:25
    knows everything about this stuff he's
  • 1:05:26
    so deep in this Gulen stuff but we'll
  • 1:05:29
    see if we can figure out what's
  • 1:05:30
    happening with the potentially Gulas
  • 1:05:32
    gonna die of old age yeah but it bad no
  • 1:05:36
    it still would be very fun to to have
  • 1:05:38
    the extradition take place and see what
  • 1:05:40
    see the plan unfold and with
  • 1:05:44
    unfolding you're not gonna do that I'd
  • 1:05:46
    like to thank you for your courage and
  • 1:05:48
    say in the morning to you was a man who
  • 1:05:49
    put the C in digital Caliphate Jhansi
  • 1:05:52
    Dvorak well in the morning to you mr.
  • 1:05:57
    Adam Curry and all the ships at scene
  • 1:05:58
    boots on the ground feeding the air subs
  • 1:06:00
    in the water and all the Dames tonight's
  • 1:06:01
    out there in the morning to our
  • 1:06:02
    illustrious trolls in the troll room
  • 1:06:05
    there there on there troll poles and
  • 1:06:07
    helping out as usual you can be a troll
  • 1:06:10
    - just go - no agenda stream comm on
  • 1:06:13
    Sunday or Thursdays and you can witness
  • 1:06:15
    the show live listen to the stream the
  • 1:06:17
    pre-show and all of that goodness and
  • 1:06:19
    you can troll me also in the morning -
  • 1:06:23
    Damon luminarias who brought us the
  • 1:06:25
    extremely funny artwork for episode 1095
  • 1:06:29
    the title of that was ya know and she
  • 1:06:33
    had our no agenda travel kits which as
  • 1:06:35
    you know consists of a stick on third
  • 1:06:36
    eye googly eye glasses and a terrorist
  • 1:06:39
    beard and she put them on on a woman
  • 1:06:43
    because there were a couple of people
  • 1:06:44
    came up with his idea but she just had
  • 1:06:46
    the funniest one for some reason with I
  • 1:06:49
    will should maybe remark on the
  • 1:06:51
    runner-up or the one that yes the worst
  • 1:06:54
    was going up against which was Darrin
  • 1:06:55
    O'Neal beautiful which makes it looks
  • 1:06:58
    like but I was I think we because it was
  • 1:07:02
    if that would be something we could use
  • 1:07:04
    as an evergreen when we don't have
  • 1:07:06
    something appropriate wasn't that I
  • 1:07:07
    don't think that one was that evergreen
  • 1:07:09
    it was still pretty specific to this
  • 1:07:10
    show but the point was it was O'Neal
  • 1:07:14
    falling back on his old formula we've
  • 1:07:17
    seen it before too many times with a
  • 1:07:19
    little splash thing with a little plug
  • 1:07:22
    as a product for sale it it's not it
  • 1:07:25
    wasn't uniquely different
  • 1:07:27
    okay now I'm talking about the Mike
  • 1:07:29
    Riley won the ya know agenda which was
  • 1:07:31
    just a beautiful piece that's a
  • 1:07:33
    different yeah now only 33 33 yeah but
  • 1:07:42
    it was also it was good it's good a one
  • 1:07:44
    that was that wasn't the problem if the
  • 1:07:47
    problem was it was Zuckerberg yeah
  • 1:07:49
    that's you know it was Zuckerberg in
  • 1:07:51
    we're harsh man people put their all
  • 1:07:54
    their love into this and we just break