Art for episode 1139

1139: Mooch and Stoll

Adam Curry & John C. Dvorak

2h 24m
May 19th, 2019
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Cover Art by CitizenX

Visit the Shownotes for episode 1139

Chapters

0:00
Start of Show
Woodstock
4:33
Anthony Scaramucci Interview
Woodstock
1:08:24
Intermission
Woodstock
1:11:17
Cliff Stoll Interview
Woodstock
2:23:02
End of Show
Woodstock
  • 0:00
    [Music]
  • 0:08
    is no agenda Madame Curie right now
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    Norma no I'm on the move I'm John C de
  • 0:27
    bourree everybody yes yes welcome to
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    episode number 1139 of the best podcast
  • 0:39
    in the universe a special day actually
  • 0:42
    you know I've seen a lot of shows that
  • 0:45
    are starting to do new numbering
  • 0:48
    differently talking about destroy you
  • 0:51
    talk about C seasons and series and no
  • 0:56
    no you know it's like I know what I know
  • 1:01
    what you're thinking I'm thinking season
  • 1:03
    I'm thinking season 11 ladies and
  • 1:05
    gentlemen wow these guys are great I
  • 1:08
    need to do it I need to binge listen to
  • 1:11
    season 11 show number 39 or whatever it
  • 1:15
    is we'll think about it yeah yeah kind
  • 1:19
    of it makes it sound more broadcast
  • 1:22
    e-even maybe that's exactly the problem
  • 1:24
    with it we shouldn't try to sound more
  • 1:26
    broadcasting or podcast these yeah this
  • 1:29
    is true so well today is a big day
  • 1:33
    yeah you're getting married yes and so
  • 1:36
    we this is actually I had to I know it's
  • 1:39
    gonna be tough for anyone to imagine how
  • 1:41
    we can do this but we're doing a show
  • 1:44
    just before the wedding yes so like a
  • 1:47
    few minutes before the wedding we're
  • 1:49
    doing this and then you're gonna run
  • 1:51
    right to the wedding right after you we
  • 1:53
    close this and ship it yeah right and
  • 1:55
    once I say I do then I go back to upload
  • 1:58
    and do the RSS feed yeah like exactly so
  • 2:04
    what we have today for the dedicated
  • 2:07
    listeners is a couple of interviews that
  • 2:10
    I did
  • 2:11
    right one with Anthony scaramouche II
  • 2:14
    now wait hold on a second this is months
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    ago you did this isn't it yeah but it
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    was I knew wasn't gonna be used to the
  • 2:23
    wedding so I may get very evergreen II
  • 2:25
    so okay well evergreen e as in ho-hum or
  • 2:29
    just Gaetano it's very interesting stuff
  • 2:31
    a lot of personal stuff we go into an
  • 2:34
    actual discussion and for example of
  • 2:36
    Donald Trump's weight now but do you
  • 2:40
    talk about that scar mood does he have a
  • 2:42
    hot wife yeah he's got a hot wife in New
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    York we also talked about his restaurant
  • 2:47
    he has a restaurant did you know that no
  • 2:50
    but somehow it does not surprise me and
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    even better I'd like to know if I can go
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    there when visiting Manhattan and say
  • 2:57
    tell mooch it's a curry from No Agenda
  • 3:00
    [Music]
  • 3:07
    right so the interview I couldn't get
  • 3:11
    that leeway no we're gonna have a look
  • 3:16
    just over an hour discussion with the
  • 3:18
    Chris stole cliff I said Chris yes
  • 3:24
    astronomer you can go look at his TED
  • 3:28
    Talks if you want to see what he's like
  • 3:31
    he's very excitable and he's got a lot
  • 3:34
    of thoughts and I worked with him for
  • 3:35
    years back in the days of tech TV before
  • 3:39
    actually MSNBC I believe he was on that
  • 3:42
    he was on that operation for a while hmm
  • 3:46
    like anyway I've known if he lives
  • 3:48
    nearby and so I figured and I have
  • 3:50
    nobody's heard from him for a while so I
  • 3:52
    thought an interview with him because he
  • 3:54
    has a lot of interesting thoughts so
  • 3:56
    what did you talk about with him a
  • 3:57
    little more techie than then scaramouche
  • 3:59
    yeah about the play we talked about what
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    your pal professor Ted talks about
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    usually the plague of the Internet the
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    nice of social media the negative
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    aspects of computers in schools the
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    negative distance
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    the unintended consequences of
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    technology yes and so that's a
  • 4:24
    fascinating interview I think people
  • 4:25
    will enjoy it might as well get started
  • 4:28
    let's just go right to Anthony
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    scaramouche II we have here Anthony
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    scaramouche II who just finished a book
  • 4:36
    called Trump to blue collar president
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    and I will say at the beginning I've
  • 4:41
    read this book and I think it's I can
  • 4:44
    highly recommend it it is very
  • 4:45
    entertaining it's kind of a interesting
  • 4:48
    romp between Anthony's background and
  • 4:53
    Donald Trump's background and it was
  • 4:56
    very very well structured I liked it so
  • 4:59
    what drove you to anyway welcome to the
  • 5:02
    No Agenda show well John thanks for
  • 5:04
    inviting me on and I mean you joined my
  • 5:06
    mother as the only two people I know
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    that have read the book so I'm very
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    delighted to have met you over this
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    pockets but in all seriousness thank you
  • 5:14
    for the comments because I really tried
  • 5:16
    to structure it in a way where I thought
  • 5:18
    it would provide some entertainment but
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    also some sociological background of why
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    the president was able to gravitate so
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    many blue-collar people to his base and
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    to his agenda a couple of things about
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    the book I want to ask right away which
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    is I've read a lot of these types of
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    books written by Italians and yours is
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    probably the only one that doesn't have
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    a more of an emphasis on the cooking of
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    the grandma now you didn't read my first
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    book okay I mean I got all I got it all
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    I got it all out of my system and
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    goodbye Gordon Gekko talked about my my
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    Nana and their how she used to hit us
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    with the wooden spoon if we weren't
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    paying attention and if you if you if
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    you read a lot of books about Italians
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    that are my age they are all reminiscent
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    of the plastic covering on the furniture
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    in those people's homes okay my my
  • 6:10
    grandmother and grandfather had rugs
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    that were at plastic runners over them
  • 6:15
    and they I think my grandmother waited
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    until she was about 65 to take the
  • 6:19
    plastic off the couch I was an
  • 6:21
    uncomfortable 40 years of that couch man
  • 6:23
    yes in fact I recall that era personally
  • 6:28
    I remember seeing people that had
  • 6:29
    everything covered with plastic I said
  • 6:31
    what are you saving it for somebody else
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    right
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    you sound like me as I said in my Nana
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    what is it what it's all well I mean
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    it's gonna be in the next generation or
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    what so so are you the cook uh no I'm
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    actually an Italian mama's boy which
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    makes me the eater or not the cook you
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    know I'm the guy that dropped his
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    underwear right where I took it off and
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    my mother swooped him behind me and next
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    thing you know it was ironed and pressed
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    okay and so unfortunately that ended for
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    me in 1982 when I went to college and so
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    no I'm basically I'm very clean I
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    probably shower twice a day but I'm the
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    most disorganized train wreck because I
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    had an Italian mom and I'm an Italian
  • 7:15
    mama's boy you are a hedge-fund guy
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    correct and I want to just asks for just
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    the general listener can you describe
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    what that means what is what is running
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    a hedge fund entail now what we what I
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    think the public generally thinks is
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    just you just you just rake in lots of
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    money doing pretty much nothing yeah I
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    mean obviously that's you know there's a
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    lot of jealousy in the media so the
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    media wants to characterize it that way
  • 7:42
    but there's three trillion dollars in
  • 7:44
    our industry in terms of assets under
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    management for a reason we actually do a
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    pretty good job for people so you would
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    come to a hedge fund manager if you were
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    looking for like a high single digit
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    rate of return a seven eight nine
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    percent return with very low volatility
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    and relative consistency and so a lot of
  • 8:05
    people have money in the stock market
  • 8:06
    but there's a lot of volatility there
  • 8:08
    which saw ten percent correction in the
  • 8:10
    month of October 2018 as an example but
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    what a hedge fund manager if they're
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    doing their jobs right they generate a
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    high absolute return with low volatility
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    and so it takes a lot of work there's 60
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    people in my organization I started this
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    company with three people in 2005 we're
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    about to celebrate our fourteenth year
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    in business this coming March and we've
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    got about 10 billion dollars under
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    management and one of the things that we
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    tried to do is we tried to democratize
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    the industry and so I set up a structure
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    having gone to Harvard Law School and
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    understand
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    the security regs I set up a new
  • 8:49
    structure which has been replicated now
  • 8:51
    where we're able to have investors with
  • 8:55
    minimums of about $25,000 so I I've sort
  • 8:58
    of opened up the hedge fund investing to
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    the mass affluent I wrote a book about
  • 9:03
    this in 2012 called the little book of
  • 9:06
    hedge funds which was basically a primer
  • 9:10
    or an explanatory book on what people
  • 9:13
    should know about hedge funds the pastas
  • 9:15
    and the minuses for that matter so and
  • 9:17
    that was well received and we have about
  • 9:19
    41,000 clients over ten billion dollars
  • 9:22
    under management and you know one thing
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    about the president he made me as famous
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    as Melania and Ivanka I didn't have to I
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    didn't have to sleep with him or be his
  • 9:30
    daughter but he made me pretty famous
  • 9:32
    and so it's raised the profile of my
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    business which has been helpful
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    publicity is good yeah yeah I know
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    question and in my business certainly
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    because we've got good performance that
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    back up the publicity well you've been
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    on a lot of shows I mean you've been on
  • 9:45
    dr. Phil yep you did a thing for
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    Facebook yeah you went on Stephen
  • 9:51
    Colbert right after you were released
  • 9:54
    from the White House yep
  • 9:57
    what did you think of that experience
  • 9:58
    cuz I watched that episode and I thought
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    it was I thought they were rude to be
  • 10:03
    honest about it well I mean look they're
  • 10:04
    angry about the president they don't
  • 10:06
    like the president of their there
  • 10:08
    they're building a fanbase of anti-trump
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    stores so when I expressed the
  • 10:14
    willingness to go on the show after
  • 10:15
    Stephen was excoriating me during my
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    time inside the White House I think they
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    were all taken aback but I know how to
  • 10:21
    take incoming I was happy to go on and
  • 10:23
    give my point of view I was on Bill
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    Maher show this past weekend I've done
  • 10:28
    his show a few times again it's like
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    being a Yankee in Fenway Park or a
  • 10:33
    Dodger in Fenway Park you know it's a
  • 10:36
    rough place but I feel that we've got to
  • 10:39
    get back to talking to each other you
  • 10:42
    know we may not agree ideologically we
  • 10:45
    may see the country going in different
  • 10:47
    directions for different reasons but if
  • 10:49
    we don't talk to each other I think it's
  • 10:51
    a very big mistake I like to tell people
  • 10:52
    I'm a patriot first and I'm partisan
  • 10:55
    last I have a certain philosophical view
  • 10:58
    based on my years of explain
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    in business and my observation about
  • 11:03
    what works from a point of view of
  • 11:05
    policy about what I don't want to do is
  • 11:07
    ever close myself off to the other
  • 11:09
    person's point of view John John Kennedy
  • 11:11
    had a great line which I share with
  • 11:13
    everybody he said I spent a lot of time
  • 11:15
    understanding the other side because
  • 11:17
    there's obviously very smart people on
  • 11:19
    the other side and I may learn something
  • 11:22
    from them or conversely they may sharpen
  • 11:25
    and provide me with more ammunition for
  • 11:28
    my own argument and so we have to do
  • 11:30
    that in our society you get a perverse
  • 11:32
    thrill when you try to describe a
  • 11:35
    situation and Bill Maher and part of
  • 11:38
    that description entails somebody
  • 11:40
    getting all worked up and Bill Maher
  • 11:42
    actually goes kind of ballistic right in
  • 11:44
    front of you well I mean I can't tell
  • 11:47
    you I'm getting a throw because I'm
  • 11:48
    trying to explain something and you know
  • 11:50
    but they sometimes they have a hard time
  • 11:52
    they you know it's very emotionally
  • 11:54
    charged you know so but I think what I'm
  • 11:57
    able to do though is I'm able to detach
  • 12:01
    myself a little bit from the heat of the
  • 12:04
    argument and try to relate to people
  • 12:07
    where I think they really live is when
  • 12:09
    all the emotions die down where they
  • 12:12
    really live is in that common sense
  • 12:14
    altimeter where they can sense when
  • 12:16
    someone's speaking common sense as
  • 12:19
    opposed to spin or ideological pablum
  • 12:23
    and I like going on these shows because
  • 12:26
    you know I I experienced Washington I
  • 12:28
    felt everybody in Washington was on spin
  • 12:30
    cycle but most New Yorkers are on a
  • 12:33
    rinse cycle and so for me I can sit
  • 12:35
    there and you know I don't have any
  • 12:37
    prepared notes I don't have any sound
  • 12:41
    bites that I'm ready to spill out of my
  • 12:44
    mouth at a moment's notice and I'm just
  • 12:46
    trying to respond and interact with
  • 12:48
    somebody on an intellectual basis and
  • 12:50
    and hopefully you know if I'm not
  • 12:53
    winning them over at least I can explain
  • 12:55
    directionally why half the country feels
  • 12:57
    the way I do what do you think Trump's
  • 13:01
    top skills are he's got an unnatural
  • 13:07
    unnatural level of charisma unnatural it
  • 13:11
    has to do with the fact that
  • 13:13
    he has decided that he is going to be
  • 13:16
    completely uninhibited in a media
  • 13:19
    environment that's 45 years of doing
  • 13:22
    radio television public speaking signing
  • 13:26
    books writing books promoting his brands
  • 13:31
    he has a completely uninhibited approach
  • 13:35
    and again I'm not picking on these
  • 13:37
    people but let's go over the 17 other
  • 13:39
    candidates that were in that race that
  • 13:41
    we're running against them for the
  • 13:42
    Republican nomination you know they are
  • 13:45
    you know they've got the Millstone on
  • 13:48
    their necks of consultants speak the
  • 13:50
    Millstone on their necks of practiced
  • 13:52
    can't say certain things that could be
  • 13:55
    offensive and so he has that capability
  • 13:59
    he's got unbelievable political
  • 14:02
    instincts unbelievable and I write about
  • 14:05
    that in my book at the end of the day he
  • 14:07
    could have had ten political consultants
  • 14:09
    telling him to pick choice a but he felt
  • 14:13
    Joyce B was the right choice he would go
  • 14:15
    a choice B he had people telling him
  • 14:17
    listen you're not gonna win in Wisconsin
  • 14:19
    or uh or Michigan don't spend any time
  • 14:21
    there and don't spending time in
  • 14:23
    Pennsylvania that that states really not
  • 14:25
    purple it's been blue for 32 years don't
  • 14:27
    spend any time there and he looked at
  • 14:29
    that and said no there's an opportunity
  • 14:31
    there there's a vacuum of advocacy for
  • 14:34
    these blue-collar people you know the
  • 14:36
    the left spent their time focused on
  • 14:39
    listen a couple of dolphins got killed
  • 14:42
    from eating plastic straws absolute
  • 14:44
    tragedy I'm not trying to make light of
  • 14:45
    it but they spent their time focused on
  • 14:48
    that or the polar ice caps melting again
  • 14:50
    a disturbing fact and not trying to make
  • 14:54
    light of it but they left out of the
  • 14:56
    equation for at least a generation what
  • 14:58
    was going on in the middle class and the
  • 15:00
    lower middle class and whether you like
  • 15:03
    the president or not he saw that opening
  • 15:05
    and he did something that has to be
  • 15:08
    marveled at if you're a political
  • 15:09
    scientist he he hijacked the Republican
  • 15:12
    Party from the establishment Republicans
  • 15:15
    who hate his guts and then he reached
  • 15:17
    into the Democratic Party and he stole
  • 15:19
    their base and moved it over to the
  • 15:20
    Republicans so again you can hate him
  • 15:22
    but this guy's got incredible political
  • 15:25
    instincts and he's a showman
  • 15:27
    and by the way he's an entertainer don't
  • 15:29
    lose sight of that he's the entertainer
  • 15:32
    in chief he knows how to get a crowd
  • 15:34
    riled up he once said or somebody wrote
  • 15:37
    about him that he's the only guy that
  • 15:39
    can fill an arena without a musical
  • 15:41
    instrument right he just shows up he's
  • 15:43
    gonna say some crazy stuff that you you
  • 15:46
    at any moment it looks like there's
  • 15:48
    gonna be a car crash and he's out there
  • 15:50
    malla propagande talking and as usual is
  • 15:53
    a ninis and there's eight ten thousand
  • 15:56
    people waiting on line to get into the
  • 15:58
    overfilled capacity of that arena those
  • 16:01
    those are skills he's also a gregarious
  • 16:03
    guy you know the media will paint him
  • 16:05
    that's not being the case but when
  • 16:07
    you're in his presence he's a lot of fun
  • 16:09
    to be with
  • 16:10
    does he get a lot of sleep I actually
  • 16:14
    cannot figure that out I mean somebody
  • 16:17
    should examine this guy because he has a
  • 16:20
    supernatural capacity to not get sleep
  • 16:23
    and I'll just quote one of his doctors
  • 16:25
    he's the only human being that we've met
  • 16:27
    where his eating habits are not
  • 16:29
    affecting his health so I can't figure
  • 16:31
    that out either okay I I've had more
  • 16:33
    than one meal with him one interesting
  • 16:35
    one in the White House where he was
  • 16:37
    pounding down the beef wellington which
  • 16:39
    is like a filet mignon wrapped in this
  • 16:41
    bakery crust and he was again passed the
  • 16:44
    sauce over here passed more of that
  • 16:46
    gravy I like him in this grave he's
  • 16:47
    probably like five million calories you
  • 16:49
    know I mean but he pounds it down no
  • 16:51
    problem has unlimited amounts of energy
  • 16:54
    this is a guy that can do 11 campaign
  • 16:57
    stops in four days prior to an election
  • 16:59
    this is a guy that was speaking in
  • 17:01
    Altoona PA at 10:30 at night we were all
  • 17:05
    exhausted he gets back on the plane
  • 17:07
    wants to fly to Michigan do one more
  • 17:08
    campaign stop at 12:30 in the morning
  • 17:11
    that's him I don't know how he does it
  • 17:13
    but that's him and he's 72 buddy but
  • 17:15
    here's a lesson for your listeners this
  • 17:17
    podcast don't smoke and don't drink
  • 17:20
    which neither thing the president does
  • 17:23
    and you too can fly around on Air Force
  • 17:26
    One like a maniac what do you think he
  • 17:30
    weighs oh why you need me in trouble
  • 17:32
    this is like breaking news well how
  • 17:35
    about this had it not 239 as that
  • 17:39
    I mean I think his published weight is
  • 17:41
    239 I would take the over on that he'd
  • 17:44
    be mad at me for saying that I don't
  • 17:45
    know what he weighs but it's not 239 one
  • 17:50
    thing you would in so far his as his
  • 17:52
    skills are concerned something that you
  • 17:54
    kind of pointed out in the book which is
  • 17:56
    the skill of timing and this is related
  • 18:01
    to his doing the New York skating rink
  • 18:04
    yeah and it seems as though he was in
  • 18:07
    the right place at the right time or if
  • 18:10
    he was premature and trying to do
  • 18:13
    something he would come back at exactly
  • 18:15
    the right moment and kind of swoop in
  • 18:17
    and which is the way kind of felt he ran
  • 18:19
    for president no question it was a
  • 18:22
    timing night no question because he
  • 18:24
    looked at running for president in 88
  • 18:25
    pause I'd stopped he looked again for
  • 18:29
    running at president in 1993 and stopped
  • 18:32
    and then he took a very serious for Ray
  • 18:35
    in 2000 to potentially grab the
  • 18:39
    nomination of the Reform Party flew out
  • 18:41
    to LA he was practicing his negatives on
  • 18:44
    John McCain who we thought was going to
  • 18:46
    be the Republican nominee the first time
  • 18:48
    I heard the words I like my heroes
  • 18:51
    uncaptured were in an interview can go
  • 18:54
    back and google this he was being
  • 18:56
    interviewed in 2000 by Dan Rather for 60
  • 18:59
    minutes and he was testing that out
  • 19:02
    because he thought John McCain was going
  • 19:04
    to be the Republican nominee in 2000 he
  • 19:06
    abandoned that because his political
  • 19:08
    instincts correctly dictated that you're
  • 19:10
    not going to win the presidency in this
  • 19:11
    country from a third party and so he
  • 19:14
    stayed out of the fray really
  • 19:16
    contemplated a 2012 race did not want to
  • 19:18
    run against than a presidential
  • 19:19
    incumbent good instincts there because
  • 19:22
    very hard to defeat an incumbent unless
  • 19:24
    you have a disaster going on in the
  • 19:26
    economy and so we didn't have a if
  • 19:28
    anything we had a stable economy in 12
  • 19:30
    improving an economy very hard to beat a
  • 19:33
    sitting president so he waited it out
  • 19:34
    and then he struck the nerve of the
  • 19:39
    anxiety that's taking place in our
  • 19:41
    system related to the blue-collar
  • 19:43
    experience and the decline in living
  • 19:45
    standards and he went out there and
  • 19:47
    preached that mantra and that mantra by
  • 19:51
    the way is tied to immigration because
  • 19:53
    at
  • 19:53
    the illegal immigration has certainly
  • 19:55
    affected wage growth in our society and
  • 19:59
    he went out there and he made that case
  • 20:01
    and he made the case in a way that was
  • 20:03
    unbelievably unorthodox and even though
  • 20:06
    we were outspent almost two to one by
  • 20:09
    secretary Clinton's campaign and we were
  • 20:11
    out manned I would say almost
  • 20:14
    three-to-one by her he was able to
  • 20:17
    capture the presidency because he was
  • 20:19
    able to get his message out in the
  • 20:21
    American media in a way that was nothing
  • 20:23
    short of staggering it was billions and
  • 20:26
    billions of dollars of free media
  • 20:29
    whether they were televising a rally or
  • 20:32
    they were interviewing him or he was
  • 20:34
    calling into their shows he literally
  • 20:37
    was able to use the media as almost a
  • 20:40
    third arm of his campaign strategy do
  • 20:44
    you surf I don't but did you did you
  • 20:47
    catch that analogy about surfing in
  • 20:50
    there yeah I mean read this is what is
  • 20:53
    this doing in here he doesn't seem like
  • 20:54
    a surfer on I'm not a I'm not a surfer
  • 20:57
    but I can discern waves because you know
  • 21:00
    there's a contradict anomic system and
  • 21:05
    there are other waves Elliot wave theory
  • 21:07
    for investing and my point the metaphor
  • 21:11
    of the surfing for your listeners was I
  • 21:13
    really feel that these politicians are
  • 21:15
    surfers and they have to get on that
  • 21:18
    surfboard and ride a wave into Shore
  • 21:22
    that fits their personality as an
  • 21:24
    example Jeb Bush would have been a
  • 21:26
    phenomenal presidential candidate in the
  • 21:28
    early 90s to mid 90s wrong candidate for
  • 21:32
    2016 but a phenomenal guy Governor
  • 21:35
    Romney same sort of thing date their
  • 21:37
    personnel just too bland you were a
  • 21:41
    supporter of Romney and then you kind of
  • 21:43
    switched over to Jeb Bush before you
  • 21:44
    finally latched on to the Trump
  • 21:46
    bandwagon yes how did that happen well
  • 21:50
    because I didn't believe him you know I
  • 21:52
    write in the book that I'm sitting with
  • 21:54
    him the day after the apprentice ends
  • 21:57
    we're having breakfast in the Trump
  • 21:59
    Tower and he's telling me he's running
  • 22:00
    for president I'm laughing I'm like yeah
  • 22:03
    we weren't the only one doing that of
  • 22:05
    course and he said yeah every
  • 22:07
    I said to him he said you weren't
  • 22:08
    watching The Apprentice last night I
  • 22:09
    said no of course not he goes while you
  • 22:11
    were the only one that wasn't watching
  • 22:12
    it I was fantastic I'm sure you were but
  • 22:16
    he said well it's over now I'm running
  • 22:17
    I'm running for president I said no
  • 22:19
    you're not
  • 22:19
    he said no no I totally am I said let me
  • 22:21
    tell you some I said you're at 2 percent
  • 22:22
    in the polls you're not gonna run for
  • 22:24
    president because I'm at 2 percent in
  • 22:25
    the polls because people are like you ok
  • 22:28
    they think I'm not running but the
  • 22:29
    minute I start running I'm gonna shoot
  • 22:31
    to the top of the polls and I'm gonna
  • 22:34
    stay there until I win the presidency
  • 22:35
    and I gotta tell you you know at least
  • 22:38
    on the Republican side that's what he
  • 22:39
    did go take a look at those polling
  • 22:40
    numbers you know there was nobody in
  • 22:44
    shooting range yeah a couple of guys won
  • 22:47
    because of the party system and the
  • 22:50
    establishment they won a few primaries
  • 22:51
    against somebody very few and you know
  • 22:54
    he was right right at the top as it
  • 22:56
    related to the popular vote among
  • 22:58
    registered Republicans so I didn't see
  • 23:00
    it I admit that in the book I also
  • 23:03
    didn't see the level of economic
  • 23:05
    desperation despite the fact that grew
  • 23:07
    up in a blue-collar family I have spent
  • 23:09
    too much time with wealthy people and
  • 23:11
    and I have to confirm biases of running
  • 23:15
    my hedge fund and interacting with
  • 23:16
    wealthy people and so when I descended
  • 23:19
    into these towns with then-candidate
  • 23:21
    Trump I write in my book that it was
  • 23:24
    quite eye-opening what I saw in those
  • 23:26
    towns and the composite of what I saw is
  • 23:29
    that we went from a generation of
  • 23:31
    aspirational working-class families to
  • 23:34
    desperation 'el ones in about 35 years
  • 23:37
    and the public servants of the
  • 23:39
    established class didn't really see it
  • 23:42
    and if they saw it they were indifferent
  • 23:44
    to it and so he was able to capitalize
  • 23:47
    on that in a way that I think will be
  • 23:49
    viewed as historic well talking about
  • 23:53
    hanging out with the rich can you
  • 23:55
    explain to me and I'm from this area how
  • 24:00
    the richest guys in Silicon Valley many
  • 24:02
    billionaires has quite a few of them are
  • 24:05
    all Democrats
  • 24:07
    well I can't but I mean what I softened
  • 24:10
    think about there's a level of guilt and
  • 24:13
    there's a level of self-preservation
  • 24:16
    that's more important to some of these
  • 24:18
    people than actual public policy and so
  • 24:20
    ends up happening is they are sitting
  • 24:24
    there or a boatload of money they feel
  • 24:25
    very guilty about it and they feel that
  • 24:27
    they can be progressive or ultra liberal
  • 24:31
    and that'll give them a pass and that's
  • 24:33
    by and large been true from the American
  • 24:35
    media so if you're super rich but you're
  • 24:38
    liberal American media leaves you alone
  • 24:40
    if you're super rich but conservative
  • 24:43
    they burn you in effigy and they try to
  • 24:45
    demonize you and so you know to me I
  • 24:47
    think it's more of a self-preservation
  • 24:48
    thing than it is a principle base thing
  • 24:51
    because how'd you get the money you got
  • 24:54
    the money because we've set up a
  • 24:55
    market-based system in our society which
  • 24:58
    has led to incredible growth and
  • 25:00
    innovation and job creation and
  • 25:02
    unbelievable success for people and and
  • 25:06
    you know we we have a society that will
  • 25:09
    reward people for their ingenuity and
  • 25:12
    risk-taking you know you cannot
  • 25:13
    systematize despite what the left says
  • 25:15
    you're never gonna be able to
  • 25:17
    systematize an equal outcome we should
  • 25:19
    be way more focused from a policy
  • 25:22
    perspective on figuring out ways to
  • 25:24
    create more equal opportunity where our
  • 25:27
    educational system K through 12 the
  • 25:29
    public system is a failure it's broken
  • 25:31
    it's very uneven we should be spending
  • 25:34
    more time figuring out a way to get a
  • 25:36
    kid who's living in a less than affluent
  • 25:40
    neighborhood at give public school
  • 25:41
    education as opposed to trying to figure
  • 25:44
    out how to overtax people and and and
  • 25:46
    wealth redistribute it doesn't work it
  • 25:49
    slows down growth it slows down
  • 25:50
    opportunity and and it stunts the system
  • 25:53
    and if you don't believe me we have 150
  • 25:55
    years of document to history on this
  • 25:57
    throughout the world where people have
  • 25:59
    tried it when you first showed up at the
  • 26:03
    White House and then left 11 days later
  • 26:07
    my take on it was that well here they
  • 26:10
    brought this guy in as a hatchet man to
  • 26:12
    get rid of Rance Priebus and banna but
  • 26:17
    as I read the book it obviously was a
  • 26:19
    more convoluted road it wasn't as though
  • 26:23
    they just brought in you as a hatchet
  • 26:25
    man to get rid of Reince Priebus yeah
  • 26:27
    but death that's kind of what looks like
  • 26:29
    in hindsight I mean III definitely serve
  • 26:32
    that purpose there's no question about
  • 26:33
    that but
  • 26:34
    you know if you remember in the book I
  • 26:36
    was offered the OPL position yeah I
  • 26:38
    accepted that job pretty Basim Bannon
  • 26:40
    tried to block me from that job and then
  • 26:43
    I did something really really stupid I
  • 26:45
    mean it did many things stupid but the
  • 26:46
    biggest stupid thing I did was I put my
  • 26:48
    pride and my ego into trying to secure
  • 26:53
    that job
  • 26:54
    you see that's what I what let lets back
  • 26:57
    to the you mentioned a Bannon and
  • 27:00
    Priebus forming a coalition of bad guys
  • 27:06
    what you thought was peculiar because
  • 27:08
    they weren't similar characters by any
  • 27:10
    means and they wanted to block you from
  • 27:13
    that particular job why do you think
  • 27:15
    that was I mean did you have some sort
  • 27:16
    of a better in with Trump did you
  • 27:20
    because you knew a more person you know
  • 27:22
    knew him personally I or what was the
  • 27:25
    purpose of their trying to block you I
  • 27:27
    didn't they just let you go there and
  • 27:29
    then just you know leave her there yeah
  • 27:31
    I mean that would have been a better
  • 27:32
    strategy I think for all of us what if
  • 27:34
    they just left me alone I wasn't I I
  • 27:35
    think pre was probably figured I was
  • 27:37
    tight with the president and who knows
  • 27:39
    you know him and me together you know
  • 27:42
    remember previous was an establishment
  • 27:43
    guy he was flooding the zone inside the
  • 27:46
    White House with orange see people that
  • 27:48
    were not necessarily loyal to the
  • 27:50
    president but were you know more loyal
  • 27:52
    of Priebus and so I think he looked at
  • 27:55
    me and and for that matter not to take
  • 27:57
    it so personally to me he looked at guys
  • 27:59
    like Giuliani Chris Christie John
  • 28:01
    LaValle was a Suffolk County Chairman
  • 28:03
    out here on Long Island he looked at all
  • 28:05
    those people and said okay these are New
  • 28:07
    Yorkers I'm gonna do everything I can to
  • 28:09
    block these New Yorkers from coming down
  • 28:11
    here to Washington and so and he was
  • 28:13
    successful at doing that so he slow
  • 28:15
    rolled me and he slow rolled those guys
  • 28:17
    I was probably the only guy due to the
  • 28:21
    determination of my personality and the
  • 28:23
    persistence where I II was like a dog on
  • 28:26
    a bone I wouldn't let up until I found
  • 28:30
    my way through the door at the White
  • 28:31
    House and so you know and then once I
  • 28:34
    got the job
  • 28:34
    I probably mishandled it in a number of
  • 28:37
    different ways you probably shouldn't
  • 28:38
    start your first day at the White House
  • 28:39
    where the chainsaw and a hockey mask
  • 28:42
    from Jason's Friday the 13th movie you
  • 28:44
    know and once I started the chainsaw I
  • 28:46
    went
  • 28:47
    after those two guys with a vengeance
  • 28:49
    and I should have been more careful
  • 28:50
    about that
  • 28:51
    you go after Bannon in the book a little
  • 28:54
    bit not as much as you could it's a lot
  • 28:56
    of it's subtle and which brings me to
  • 28:58
    the question well that brings me to the
  • 28:59
    question if you claimed claim I don't
  • 29:02
    want to use that word claim because I
  • 29:03
    don't like it but you say you're you
  • 29:05
    were a class clown I'm a class clown or
  • 29:10
    he was a class guy
  • 29:11
    no you were a class clown yeah I was a
  • 29:13
    prankster in school no question about
  • 29:15
    that I had well I don't know I look I
  • 29:19
    had I had a reasonable hike IQ and I had
  • 29:22
    an okay work ethic I got serious once I
  • 29:26
    got to college which helped me get in a
  • 29:27
    Harvard Law School but you know I don't
  • 29:30
    know I I play for laughs there's no
  • 29:32
    question about that I have there's an
  • 29:33
    entertainment streak in my personality
  • 29:35
    you can see that there's some
  • 29:37
    irreverence in the book in terms of the
  • 29:39
    way I describe certain situations myself
  • 29:42
    included but I would say that bad and
  • 29:44
    you know that he was he was a guy when
  • 29:47
    he thought he needed you he was very
  • 29:49
    polite very seductive but he was a guy
  • 29:52
    when he didn't need you you were a
  • 29:54
    disposable piece of tissue and so all of
  • 29:58
    that stuff is coming back to roost on
  • 30:00
    Bannen now you know he's he's spits
  • 30:03
    arised okay and what do I mean by that
  • 30:05
    when Eliot Spitzer went down ten years
  • 30:08
    ago because he was so mean and nasty to
  • 30:10
    so many people there was nobody there to
  • 30:13
    save them and so he spits arised and now
  • 30:16
    he's going to rallies where five or ten
  • 30:17
    people are around them and you know he's
  • 30:20
    he's lost an element of his
  • 30:22
    self-proclaimed guru nature and and and
  • 30:26
    so look I me but for me I thought he's
  • 30:28
    just very dishonest he's an unbelievable
  • 30:30
    leaker if you look at what the president
  • 30:33
    said about him in the press release in
  • 30:34
    January of 2018 it was virtually
  • 30:37
    identical to what I was saying about him
  • 30:40
    unfortunately I got caught on a hot mic
  • 30:42
    which is fine but uh you know that the
  • 30:44
    journalists took it totally out of
  • 30:46
    context I he was trying to get me to do
  • 30:49
    a profile with him in his magazine and
  • 30:51
    I'm like not self-promotional like that
  • 30:53
    like Steve is and then I used an
  • 30:55
    inappropriate word and he said okay I've
  • 30:57
    hit the jackpot here let me run this
  • 30:59
    over to CNN and
  • 31:00
    exaggerate what happened so that's fine
  • 31:03
    I'm a big boy I paid the price with my
  • 31:05
    job I write about it honestly in the
  • 31:08
    book I'm very accountable for the
  • 31:09
    mistake folks see you don't write about
  • 31:11
    it I don't think you're necessarily as
  • 31:15
    firm as you could have been I mean that
  • 31:17
    was a chickenshit thing that happened
  • 31:19
    from a journalist perspective why
  • 31:24
    Howie Kurtz said in 40 years in
  • 31:26
    Washington he's never seen a journalist
  • 31:28
    do that to a governmental official so
  • 31:31
    but you know that's okay there's a first
  • 31:32
    time for everything
  • 31:33
    I made the mistake by talking to the guy
  • 31:36
    right so I mean I have to own that
  • 31:38
    shouldn't have talked to him back back
  • 31:40
    to Bannon yeah early in the book you say
  • 31:44
    that Steve ban and you compare him to a
  • 31:47
    blood sucking vampire bat yeah yeah and
  • 31:52
    when later in the book you have this
  • 31:53
    sense which is the only thing I've
  • 31:54
    actually excerpted for this interview
  • 31:57
    because I thought it was it was pretty
  • 31:58
    funny because it was subtle it was like
  • 32:01
    it was it was kind of literate but at
  • 32:05
    the same time rude active leaking
  • 32:08
    addiction never ends well bannon's sure
  • 32:11
    didn't remember how he looked leaving
  • 32:14
    the White House a harvard-educated cuck
  • 32:17
    draped in contemporary hobo yeah that's
  • 32:22
    pretty good though right
  • 32:23
    I thought it was quite good I think it
  • 32:25
    was you you actually put some thought
  • 32:27
    into it yeah he wrote the book around
  • 32:30
    that yeah couple of sentences yeah he's
  • 32:31
    a cook he's ultimately a cook at the end
  • 32:34
    of the day went to Harvard Business
  • 32:35
    School he worked at Goldman Sachs he was
  • 32:37
    in Hollywood
  • 32:38
    I mean he's hit the triangulation of
  • 32:41
    every one of those nexuses and then he
  • 32:43
    tries to pretend that he's some outsider
  • 32:47
    that's focused on ethnocentrism and
  • 32:50
    white nationalism I mean III think the
  • 32:52
    guys are an incredibly flawed guy but
  • 32:55
    wickedly smart and very well-read III
  • 32:57
    I made a joke at one of the college
  • 32:59
    campuses that you know if you ever are
  • 33:02
    doubting God or if you falling into the
  • 33:05
    trap of atheism just remember this as
  • 33:08
    seductive and as smart as Steve Bannon
  • 33:10
    is God made him so ugly and made him
  • 33:13
    dress so in a
  • 33:14
    propria that his ideas will never be
  • 33:17
    taken seriously thankfully by the
  • 33:18
    civilization so so to me he's not my cup
  • 33:22
    of tea I've offered to debate Steve
  • 33:24
    Bannon I've offered to debate
  • 33:26
    Reince Priebus any place anywhere and
  • 33:29
    I'll continue to wait on that you you
  • 33:30
    you it I think you know who he is I was
  • 33:32
    on his radio show he said that he's in
  • 33:34
    love with Reince Priebus is one of his
  • 33:36
    best friends it's no great invite
  • 33:37
    Wright's previous on your radio show
  • 33:39
    with me let's have an honest and candid
  • 33:42
    conversation about what he's really like
  • 33:44
    with the people that he work with inside
  • 33:46
    the White House
  • 33:47
    you think that'll happen my brother okay
  • 33:50
    uh hell hell will freeze over before
  • 33:52
    that happens well I there's no reason
  • 33:54
    for him to want to do that where is
  • 33:56
    Rance Priebus now I don't even know I
  • 33:59
    apparently I think he went back to his
  • 34:00
    Wisconsin law firm and I think he's
  • 34:02
    keeping a low profile because you know I
  • 34:05
    mean he perked up a lot of people I mean
  • 34:07
    it's not forget about just me he just
  • 34:10
    burned up a lot of people and so he
  • 34:12
    exposed his full-blown insecurity in
  • 34:14
    that job and he explodes what exposed
  • 34:16
    his levels of low self esteem and low
  • 34:20
    self confidence
  • 34:21
    hey players go out and try to hire eight
  • 34:24
    plus people see players like a guy like
  • 34:27
    him they'll hire D's and F's why did
  • 34:31
    Trump hire him well I think Trump felt
  • 34:34
    that he had yet helped him with the
  • 34:37
    apparatus and technology around the RNC
  • 34:40
    and I think Trump felt a level of
  • 34:42
    loyalty and Trump also felt that if he
  • 34:44
    had him in the White House he was tight
  • 34:47
    with Paul Ryan and he was a member of
  • 34:49
    that Washington sediment that he could
  • 34:52
    help him drain the swamp but what the
  • 34:56
    mistake that the president made is that
  • 34:57
    he put a cesspool operator in the most
  • 35:01
    important job in the system and so all
  • 35:02
    that guy was doing was pouring more
  • 35:04
    sewage into the system you're not you're
  • 35:06
    not gonna drain the swamp by bringing a
  • 35:09
    cesspool operator that's lived in the
  • 35:11
    swamp for 15 years in to drain the swamp
  • 35:14
    they're not going to do it they their
  • 35:16
    goal is to outlast you and to continue
  • 35:18
    to work the lobbying and currying of
  • 35:21
    favor business inside of Washington to
  • 35:24
    line their own pockets they're not
  • 35:25
    they're not there to serve the American
  • 35:27
    people
  • 35:27
    American people are onto that thing the
  • 35:29
    American people know that one of the
  • 35:31
    biggest reasons they had to get me out
  • 35:32
    of there I don't know if you saw my
  • 35:33
    first press conference but the my the
  • 35:36
    critics of my first press convert honest
  • 35:39
    can't you can't talk the truth like that
  • 35:41
    from the White House Pro podium what are
  • 35:43
    you nuts
  • 35:44
    and and that's an America the American
  • 35:47
    people know it that you know one thing
  • 35:48
    that the president has done for the
  • 35:50
    society is he's fully exposed the
  • 35:54
    cockroaches that live in the kitchen
  • 35:55
    known as Washington okay the lights are
  • 35:57
    on now they're crawling around stunned
  • 35:59
    that they're being caught with all their
  • 36:03
    nonsense we'll talk it well in the
  • 36:05
    subject of cockroaches do you think the
  • 36:07
    White House was bugged I don't know I
  • 36:13
    would I gotta believe no but I will say
  • 36:19
    this they dismantled the Oval Office in
  • 36:21
    August of 2017 and rebuilt it and so I'm
  • 36:27
    hoping that the answer is no I don't
  • 36:29
    know the answer it just seems like a lot
  • 36:33
    of the stories that the media was
  • 36:35
    picking up on always predate the moment
  • 36:38
    that the Oval Office was reconstructed
  • 36:43
    just coincidence maybe not sure
  • 36:45
    coincidence but it's also previous in
  • 36:47
    Bannen there were 60 to 70% of the leaks
  • 36:49
    once they were removed the leaks really
  • 36:51
    did go down dramatically still leaking
  • 36:53
    every White House is gonna leak but it's
  • 36:55
    not not leaking with that level of
  • 36:58
    animosity and that level of venom
  • 37:01
    towards each other you know that that's
  • 37:03
    gone down a lot you what do you think of
  • 37:08
    the New York Times hit piece on Trump
  • 37:10
    which if you read in great detail does
  • 37:13
    the recent one work Trump apparently
  • 37:15
    never had any money to begin with and it
  • 37:17
    was pretty much financed by his father
  • 37:18
    Fred and if you read between the lines
  • 37:20
    it kind of implies against all logic
  • 37:24
    that Fred Trump was a multi billionaire
  • 37:28
    that could just throw tons of money at
  • 37:30
    his son yeah I mean listen I've seen the
  • 37:34
    documentary active measures apparently
  • 37:38
    he's a puppet of Vladimir Putin
  • 37:41
    and now he made you know he just
  • 37:42
    siphoned all the money off from his dad
  • 37:44
    illegally and you know I've heard all of
  • 37:48
    these different things but if you really
  • 37:50
    look closely at the article whatever
  • 37:53
    happened there between him and his dad
  • 37:54
    it was clearly inside of the seam of the
  • 37:59
    tax code and I took taxation in law
  • 38:03
    school there's a very famous decision
  • 38:06
    that the name of the justice is justice
  • 38:08
    Lerner hand you could Google the
  • 38:11
    decision it's about what you're allowed
  • 38:13
    to do and not allowed to do as a relates
  • 38:15
    to the tax code and and and justice Han
  • 38:18
    basically says you can be aggressive as
  • 38:20
    long as you're inside the seam of the
  • 38:22
    code and so I think that they're
  • 38:24
    stretching things a little bit in that
  • 38:26
    story I don't know if the president got
  • 38:29
    a million dollars from his father to
  • 38:31
    start his business or 413 million
  • 38:34
    dollars to start his business but I it
  • 38:37
    doesn't really matter to the average
  • 38:38
    American I think that's the point the
  • 38:40
    average American views him as a very
  • 38:42
    successful guy he was successful in real
  • 38:45
    estate he had a rise and fall which I
  • 38:47
    described in the book and then he rose
  • 38:49
    again so there's a level of force and
  • 38:52
    determination in his personality he went
  • 38:54
    on to become a television star I don't
  • 38:56
    think anybody can take that away from
  • 38:57
    him and then from the process of being a
  • 39:00
    television star he switched over to
  • 39:02
    American politics and in 17 short months
  • 39:05
    became the American president so you
  • 39:08
    know I'd like to think that given the
  • 39:09
    high-profile nature of the president's
  • 39:12
    life over the last 40 years if he was
  • 39:14
    really doing something aggressively
  • 39:16
    nefarious as what is being described
  • 39:19
    he's such a high profile target for a DA
  • 39:22
    that wants to be the mayor or the
  • 39:24
    governor they they would have gone at
  • 39:26
    after him with a vengeance so I put
  • 39:29
    about the same level of weight on that
  • 39:32
    story as most Americans do which is you
  • 39:35
    know moving on I I think that's probably
  • 39:37
    what the reaction was but it was
  • 39:40
    followed up then by an anonymous op-ed
  • 39:43
    which was rare written by some supposed
  • 39:47
    insider in the White House do you think
  • 39:49
    that was an insider in the White House
  • 39:51
    you think yeah what do you what's your
  • 39:52
    take on that and who you think it might
  • 39:54
    be so you know
  • 39:55
    I got an 11-day PhD in Washington
  • 39:58
    scumbag er II okay so I can tell you
  • 40:01
    that there's no way a senior guy would
  • 40:04
    have written that and so what they would
  • 40:05
    have used it they cut out they would
  • 40:07
    have gotten one of the junior guys to
  • 40:09
    write that and put it in there and so
  • 40:11
    what that is is that's a that's a
  • 40:14
    cockroach survival note and so the the
  • 40:18
    chef is in the kitchen he's gonna be
  • 40:19
    here for four to eight years but my
  • 40:22
    fellow cockroaches I'm gonna survive him
  • 40:24
    and so will you and when I return back
  • 40:27
    the cockroach land after serving this
  • 40:29
    guy I want you not to treat me poorly
  • 40:32
    and that and that's basically what that
  • 40:34
    was that was a to me it was the most
  • 40:36
    dishonest and most disloyal thing you're
  • 40:39
    serving the elected president of the
  • 40:42
    United States the leader of the free
  • 40:44
    world you may not like him but if you
  • 40:47
    don't like him and you don't like his
  • 40:49
    policies then leave I just think that
  • 40:52
    that was the most dishonest most
  • 40:54
    disingenuous thing and again another
  • 40:57
    example of why the American people
  • 40:58
    actually hate the swamp and they hate
  • 41:00
    every aspect of the swamp what's the New
  • 41:04
    York Times grudge against Trump he has
  • 41:08
    been right and they have been wrong
  • 41:10
    that's the that's the grudge they they
  • 41:14
    had a circular two years ago they had a
  • 41:17
    seven or eight page circular on the case
  • 41:21
    against Donald Trump and it wasn't just
  • 41:24
    an editorial it was like an eight page
  • 41:26
    circular that they inserted into the
  • 41:29
    newspaper and and then they had to
  • 41:32
    apologize to him after the election they
  • 41:34
    had to apologize to him do you follow
  • 41:36
    you follow what I'm saying
  • 41:37
    so yeah I mean this was the form of the
  • 41:40
    apology well the apology was we were too
  • 41:43
    bellicose with our rhetoric we were too
  • 41:45
    negative I mean they've ramped it up
  • 41:48
    subsequent to that but I'm just saying
  • 41:50
    that that the New York Times is they
  • 41:55
    don't like the president's policies they
  • 41:56
    don't like the president's personality
  • 41:58
    and they don't like the fact that
  • 41:59
    presidents winning and they've been on
  • 42:01
    the losing side of the argument for the
  • 42:02
    last 36 months so so they're gonna
  • 42:05
    continue to be in that camp and he's
  • 42:07
    done a masterful job
  • 42:08
    of getting these left-leaning media
  • 42:11
    establishments to hate his guts he has
  • 42:14
    figured out by throwing Molotov
  • 42:17
    cocktails or puffery or exaggerating
  • 42:20
    statements they're gonna act like Hall
  • 42:22
    monitors fact-checking him and the whole
  • 42:26
    you know Charlie Brown teacher
  • 42:29
    wah-wah you know that's what they're
  • 42:31
    doing on their television shows and he's
  • 42:33
    laughing he's laughing he knows that
  • 42:37
    he's got them totally distracted and as
  • 42:40
    John Stewart said the other day that he
  • 42:43
    has figured out that he may be a
  • 42:45
    narcissist but they're as narcissistic
  • 42:46
    as him and and he's made it about them
  • 42:49
    and they love talking about them on
  • 42:51
    their shows and so that was a masterful
  • 42:55
    thing that he's done so far master well
  • 42:58
    you liked stones movie Wall Street I did
  • 43:04
    mention this in the book I did but you
  • 43:06
    didn't mention the wolf of Wall Street I
  • 43:08
    would like to know I mean Wall Street is
  • 43:11
    the Gordon Gecko movie for anyone
  • 43:13
    doesn't remember it but your greed is
  • 43:15
    good and all those sorts of cliches and
  • 43:19
    the wolf of Wall Street of course was
  • 43:21
    more about the excesses what do you what
  • 43:24
    and you're in the business so how do you
  • 43:26
    think about comparing those two movies
  • 43:28
    what do you think of the wolf of Wall
  • 43:29
    Street well you know the reason I like
  • 43:31
    the Wall Street movie is that I was a
  • 43:33
    young man I was in my mid-20s when that
  • 43:36
    movie came out it was 23 or 24 and I was
  • 43:40
    aspiring to go to Wall Street and so
  • 43:42
    even though it was a cautionary tale
  • 43:44
    about greed and excess I thought it was
  • 43:47
    well presented and Michael Douglas won
  • 43:49
    the Academy Award for it and in the
  • 43:52
    second movie Oliver Stone came to me and
  • 43:55
    gave me the opportunity to play myself
  • 43:56
    in the movie and so there's pictures of
  • 43:59
    me in my office here with Josh Brolin
  • 44:01
    and and Michael Douglas with my kids and
  • 44:04
    so I learned a lot about the artistic
  • 44:08
    interpretation of Wall Street and I my
  • 44:11
    first book was called goodbye Gordon
  • 44:13
    Gekko how to find your fortune without
  • 44:15
    losing your soul and basically it was a
  • 44:17
    it was titled that way to talk about the
  • 44:19
    fact that greed actually isn't good and
  • 44:21
    you have to take a long term
  • 44:22
    approach the things in the world of
  • 44:24
    financial services and so I I'm fond of
  • 44:27
    that movie for those sentimental reasons
  • 44:29
    um I was asked to be in the wolf of Wall
  • 44:33
    Street I have a good relationship with
  • 44:35
    Leo DiCaprio and Bo Dietl who played one
  • 44:39
    of the roles in the movie and I elected
  • 44:41
    not to be in that movie because that
  • 44:43
    movie was not about an interpretation
  • 44:46
    there was a FactSet related to this guy
  • 44:49
    Jordan Belfort where he literally did
  • 44:52
    everything that you're not supposed to
  • 44:54
    do as a money manager he fleeced the
  • 44:56
    people he sold them things that were
  • 45:00
    literally dreams pipe dreams and he did
  • 45:03
    many many illegal things and so for me
  • 45:06
    I'm not saying there isn't a darker side
  • 45:09
    to Wall Street there clearly is I
  • 45:10
    believe there's a darker side to
  • 45:12
    journalism there's a darker side to
  • 45:14
    medicine unfortunately we're human
  • 45:17
    beings and and darkness lives in a lot
  • 45:20
    of different sectors of the economy but
  • 45:22
    I was not a supporter of that movie
  • 45:25
    because one of the problems with a movie
  • 45:27
    like that because it is factual
  • 45:28
    it's it's back to that cliche that one
  • 45:31
    bad apple could spoil the whole basket
  • 45:33
    of apples and so to me you know I've had
  • 45:35
    my 30th year on Wall Street but for my
  • 45:38
    brief interregnum at the White House and
  • 45:42
    by and large we've tried to do a good
  • 45:44
    job the reason why we're running ten
  • 45:45
    billion dollars is we have a good track
  • 45:47
    record and we're honest people so that's
  • 45:49
    the reason why I compare and contrast
  • 45:51
    the two things
  • 45:53
    in the early days you were supporter of
  • 45:55
    Obama in some way cuz you raised money
  • 45:58
    for him after you met him at the
  • 46:00
    University Club yep why I had gone to
  • 46:03
    school with him I can't honestly say we
  • 46:06
    were close friends in school or anything
  • 46:07
    like that but I had a lot of friends of
  • 46:09
    mine at Harvard Law School that were
  • 46:11
    friends with him I was less involved
  • 46:15
    with politics at that time I was a
  • 46:17
    right-of-center person and I'm recently
  • 46:20
    far-left on social issues I believe
  • 46:22
    people should be able to express I don't
  • 46:24
    think life liberty and the pursuit of
  • 46:26
    happiness is only for straight people I
  • 46:28
    think that everyone should have that
  • 46:29
    opportunity and so when he presented
  • 46:32
    himself I said okay that seems like you
  • 46:34
    know you guys like them you know
  • 46:36
    personally and I said to myself
  • 46:37
    rhetorically how many times in my life
  • 46:39
    am I gonna know somebody that's actually
  • 46:42
    running for president and could possibly
  • 46:44
    be the president little did I know that
  • 46:46
    that would that wouldn't be the first
  • 46:47
    time you know and ended up working in
  • 46:50
    the White House for a short period but
  • 46:51
    but you know when he started becoming
  • 46:54
    more progressively left to riven on the
  • 46:57
    economy and more progressively left
  • 46:59
    driven on business I sort of returned to
  • 47:02
    my Republican roots but I do like the
  • 47:04
    president I like President Obama had a
  • 47:05
    lot of respect for him in his life he's
  • 47:07
    the Jackie Robinson of American politics
  • 47:09
    and we may not agree on everything
  • 47:12
    related to the the business side of
  • 47:14
    things or the economy but I am happy
  • 47:17
    with the social progress that was
  • 47:19
    created during his administration you
  • 47:21
    used the phrase he slam-dunked you in
  • 47:24
    the book maybe twice yeah
  • 47:27
    and it's it was even in context I can't
  • 47:30
    figure out what you're talking about
  • 47:31
    well I was on a I was on a television
  • 47:34
    show with him in 2010 it was at the CNBC
  • 47:38
    townhall public life at the Newseum down
  • 47:43
    the block on Pennsylvania Avenue and he
  • 47:45
    came in there and they were interviewing
  • 47:46
    him and I was audience participant I
  • 47:50
    asked him a question I said mr.
  • 47:53
    president nice to see again we
  • 47:55
    reacquainted ourselves and then I said
  • 47:57
    when are you gonna stop whacking Wall
  • 48:00
    Street with a pinata stick so the first
  • 48:03
    thing is if you're an italian-american
  • 48:04
    don't use the word whack on live TV in
  • 48:06
    front of the president I think that was
  • 48:07
    mistake number one and the mistake
  • 48:09
    number two is you know he was adamant
  • 48:12
    that Walsh it was a big cause of the
  • 48:13
    financial crisis and so he came back at
  • 48:16
    me very hard and of course he's the
  • 48:19
    president I'm not I didn't get a chance
  • 48:20
    to rebut him and so he metaphorically
  • 48:23
    slam-dunked me on that live television
  • 48:25
    show so much so that Jon Stewart that
  • 48:29
    night on Comedy Central Lampoon me to
  • 48:31
    the great delight of my teenage children
  • 48:34
    at that time what do you say Jon Stewart
  • 48:39
    basically I know what it did bama's Oh
  • 48:41
    what did Obama say Obama said that I was
  • 48:45
    wrong about him hitting wall street with
  • 48:47
    a pinata stick and that wall she was the
  • 48:49
    real
  • 48:49
    cause of the problem of the crisis and
  • 48:51
    that the greed on Wall Street had
  • 48:54
    overcome wisdom and it was a pretty
  • 48:56
    heavy healthy invective at our industry
  • 49:01
    not necessarily me personally but he
  • 49:05
    came back very hard at that at that
  • 49:09
    question and and in hindsight I was
  • 49:11
    trying to lobby in a softball I thought
  • 49:13
    he was gonna say well there's definitely
  • 49:14
    a nexus between Wall Street and in Main
  • 49:17
    Street and we have to keep that harmony
  • 49:19
    but he was not hearing it you know that
  • 49:21
    was playing on you exactly right and by
  • 49:23
    the way that was a month or so before
  • 49:25
    the 2010 midterms and so being a
  • 49:29
    politician he was like a dog with a bone
  • 49:30
    and he was he was going at that thing
  • 49:32
    very hard you can do this thing called a
  • 49:35
    salt salt conference which is a
  • 49:37
    gathering of I think had fun hedge fund
  • 49:41
    folk yeah you book Bill Clinton once I
  • 49:45
    did I booked President Clinton I've had
  • 49:48
    John Brennan I've had Joe Vice President
  • 49:50
    Joe Biden I've had James Carville I've
  • 49:57
    had Donna Brazile III but of course I've
  • 50:00
    had Governor Romney George Walker Bush
  • 50:02
    Tony Blair I really tried to make the
  • 50:05
    salt conference and all party all
  • 50:08
    ideological experience I'm not looking
  • 50:11
    to make it a conservative conference
  • 50:15
    event or anything like that I may have
  • 50:16
    certain conservative ideas but I also
  • 50:19
    brought the human rights campaign guys
  • 50:21
    who were working on the legalization of
  • 50:23
    gay marriage in the US and you know I'm
  • 50:27
    a believer in that so you know I I'm I I
  • 50:29
    mean I guess the one of the main reasons
  • 50:31
    I could never run for office the fact
  • 50:33
    that No thank God it would like to keep
  • 50:36
    my family together and stay married but
  • 50:37
    another reason is I don't fit
  • 50:39
    ideologically in either one of these
  • 50:41
    parties you know I'm asked about the
  • 50:43
    Clinton thing cuz I was wondering if you
  • 50:45
    recall what his speaking fee was at that
  • 50:48
    time it was a lot less that it is now I
  • 50:52
    think he's two and a quarter now he was
  • 50:54
    probably one and a quarter 150 back then
  • 50:57
    remember that's almost 10 years ago
  • 50:59
    though that's a million five hundred
  • 51:01
    thousand no I'm sorry
  • 51:03
    50 US thousand oh honey I know he's
  • 51:06
    probably 225 thousand today those are
  • 51:10
    probably that's not up that's not me
  • 51:12
    breaking any rules of confidentiality
  • 51:13
    those were public well you don't I know
  • 51:16
    this I then I've been represented by a
  • 51:21
    number of speakers girls and I know what
  • 51:22
    the what the rules are and if you want a
  • 51:28
    book bill if you want to find out Bill
  • 51:29
    Clinton speaking fee creates some sort
  • 51:31
    of a function and then call one of them
  • 51:33
    asking what it cost to get him and
  • 51:34
    you'll get that number I think that says
  • 51:36
    I think that's his going rate right
  • 51:38
    around now I'd bother he did a very good
  • 51:40
    job he was articulate and thoughtful and
  • 51:43
    he answered questions and again you know
  • 51:48
    you may not agree with everything that
  • 51:50
    he has to say and there may be elements
  • 51:51
    of what he had to say related to the
  • 51:54
    economic stewardship of the 1990s under
  • 51:57
    his watch but you know at the end of the
  • 52:00
    day um I think it's a valuable voice you
  • 52:04
    know I would I would as an example I
  • 52:06
    don't know if he would ever be available
  • 52:08
    for this but I would be interested in
  • 52:09
    booking President Obama no problem and
  • 52:12
    of course at some point President Trump
  • 52:13
    I'm I am thinking he's gonna be
  • 52:17
    available okay well have to see sure I'm
  • 52:19
    sure to be a lot of dough though that'll
  • 52:21
    be another consideration for me can you
  • 52:24
    explain the Trump Cruz relationship um
  • 52:28
    no I actually can't I mean I don't think
  • 52:31
    anybody can but I can I can offer up
  • 52:33
    some some things about life and the
  • 52:38
    political expediency I think that the
  • 52:41
    the scarring and the battering in terms
  • 52:46
    of the way these guys went at each other
  • 52:47
    in 2016 has been subordinated to
  • 52:51
    political survivorship and the
  • 52:53
    presidents need to have somebody that's
  • 52:55
    right leaning in a red state and keep
  • 52:59
    the red state red and so they've
  • 53:01
    subordinated some of their personal
  • 53:04
    invective towards each other and it goes
  • 53:07
    back to that age-old adage that politics
  • 53:09
    makes strange bedfellows so you could
  • 53:12
    read what they've said about each other
  • 53:14
    and you would say okay those guys
  • 53:17
    probably not gonna be talking to each
  • 53:18
    other anytime soon but yet they had a
  • 53:19
    rally where there were tens of thousands
  • 53:22
    of people at the rally in Houston so
  • 53:24
    it's gonna be close but I do think Ted
  • 53:27
    senator Cruz wins in Texas if you look
  • 53:29
    at the latest polling you have a
  • 53:32
    publicist I have a PR person for
  • 53:36
    skybridge I had a publicist coming out
  • 53:39
    of the White House because I thought I
  • 53:42
    needed somebody to bounce some ideas off
  • 53:44
    of in terms of how I was gonna recover
  • 53:46
    from that media excoriation but that was
  • 53:49
    more of like a crisis management person
  • 53:51
    than anything else you mentioned you
  • 53:53
    have a restaurant yeah what is it what's
  • 53:56
    it called yeah so I have a restaurant on
  • 53:58
    44th Street called the hunt and fish
  • 54:00
    club if you know anything about the
  • 54:02
    Mafia I named it after John Gotti social
  • 54:04
    club he used to call it the Bergen
  • 54:05
    County hunt and fish club so I figured
  • 54:07
    if they're gonna stereotype me in our
  • 54:09
    civilization why not why not put it want
  • 54:12
    to put that on my restaurant so it's a
  • 54:14
    great steeped steak and seafood place
  • 54:16
    it's located in the theater district on
  • 54:18
    up West 44th Street 125 West 44th
  • 54:21
    Street's got great ratings very strong
  • 54:24
    clientele it's a beautiful setting and
  • 54:27
    pursuant to the free market a market
  • 54:30
    based economics I made the chef an owner
  • 54:32
    of the place because he's that good
  • 54:34
    always a good idea amen right can I gain
  • 54:39
    a bunch of people and if you just give
  • 54:41
    me a quick response because we're
  • 54:42
    getting near the end here yeah sure
  • 54:44
    I just tell me what you think of um kind
  • 54:47
    of I think we already know what you
  • 54:49
    think of Priebus and Bannen yeah Kelly
  • 54:53
    and Conway nice person very loyal to the
  • 54:57
    president
  • 54:58
    great messenger I think she clearly
  • 55:01
    helped him win the presidency 52% of the
  • 55:04
    white women voters voted for President
  • 55:07
    Trump and I think you could really point
  • 55:09
    to her as being one of the reasons why I
  • 55:13
    used to follow Kelly and Conway before
  • 55:16
    she was Kelly and Conway in the 90s
  • 55:18
    mm-hmm and she was one of the sharpest
  • 55:20
    twits on on talk talk shows no no
  • 55:24
    question very impressive very impressive
  • 55:25
    person Jared Kushner
  • 55:29
    super-smart he's shifted into a down
  • 55:33
    gear to be a little bit less
  • 55:34
    high-profile because of the flack that
  • 55:38
    he was taking from John Kelly but I
  • 55:41
    think he was very instrumental in the
  • 55:43
    the renegotiation of NAFTA and I think
  • 55:46
    he's helping the President on the China
  • 55:47
    trade issue as well and I mean he's
  • 55:50
    obviously very loyal very smart guy John
  • 55:53
    Kelly
  • 55:54
    you know I applaud his service the
  • 55:57
    United States 40 years in the Marine
  • 55:59
    Corps he also lost his child who's a
  • 56:02
    gold star family member and so I applaud
  • 56:05
    him for his record in the military but
  • 56:08
    he's just in my opinion as I expressed
  • 56:10
    in my book he's just not well suited his
  • 56:12
    management style and the militancy of
  • 56:15
    his management style is not well suited
  • 56:17
    for a civilian organization and I think
  • 56:19
    he's hurt the morale inside the White
  • 56:21
    House in the book you say he hates Trump
  • 56:23
    oh there's no question about that I mean
  • 56:25
    I don't I don't think anybody believes
  • 56:28
    that he likes him he's made it clearer
  • 56:31
    to people outside the doors of the West
  • 56:34
    Wing know so it's not like I'm saying
  • 56:37
    something that isn't true Ivanka a
  • 56:41
    ridiculously smart gifted person great
  • 56:45
    public speaker obviously she's got some
  • 56:48
    elegance and class to her style and
  • 56:51
    personality and I think she's invaluable
  • 56:54
    to the president that she's helped him
  • 56:56
    in so many different ways minuchin
  • 57:00
    extremely competent a very cautious guy
  • 57:04
    has done a good job of pushing through
  • 57:07
    the tax reform and other regulatory
  • 57:10
    reform and extraordinarily bright and
  • 57:14
    again he's an unsung hero of the Trump
  • 57:17
    campaign because he was the fundraising
  • 57:20
    chair and he did a great job on the
  • 57:21
    fundraising side general Flynn American
  • 57:25
    Hero I think he got treated badly I'll
  • 57:29
    just echo what President Trump said I
  • 57:31
    don't know all of the facts of the case
  • 57:34
    but I think he's he's a guy like a great
  • 57:37
    deal I hold him a very high personal
  • 57:38
    regard and I hope him and his family
  • 57:40
    okay the writer Michael Wolfe is total
  • 57:45
    liar and fabricator and just this honest
  • 57:50
    representation so he would be like the
  • 57:52
    Jordan Belfort of journalism you know he
  • 57:54
    would be like the guy if you're an
  • 57:56
    honest journalist you'd look at your
  • 57:58
    look at a guy like him and shake your
  • 57:59
    head very dishonest guy Sean Hannity
  • 58:03
    he's one of my best friends you know we
  • 58:06
    grew up very similarly on Long Island
  • 58:08
    obviously he endorsed the front cover of
  • 58:10
    my book and the back cover for that
  • 58:11
    matter and he's a fighter Sean Hannity's
  • 58:15
    a street fighter and so when I wake up
  • 58:17
    in the morning I say man I got to get to
  • 58:19
    work because I know Sean's working three
  • 58:20
    times harder than me Mueller don't know
  • 58:24
    him he's got an impeccable reputation
  • 58:26
    and I do believe that whatever process
  • 58:29
    is going on there I think he will treat
  • 58:32
    people fairly that's just based on
  • 58:34
    reputation don't know him personally
  • 58:35
    call me just you know again don't know
  • 58:39
    him personally but seems very
  • 58:41
    sanctimonious he's another guy would
  • 58:43
    love to debate because I read through
  • 58:45
    his book I can't tell you honestly read
  • 58:46
    the entire thing but there's a lot of
  • 58:48
    sanctimony there and there's a lot of
  • 58:50
    righteousness and no one is that
  • 58:53
    infallible so you know when you look
  • 58:56
    through my book you'll see that I'm
  • 58:57
    citing a lot of my mistakes and missteps
  • 59:00
    in life and things I wish I could have
  • 59:01
    done better and so I just think there's
  • 59:04
    a lot of sanctimony and in commis book
  • 59:06
    and and you know it's that it's just too
  • 59:10
    in disingenuous for me George
  • 59:12
    papadopolis don't know him he probably
  • 59:16
    got set up that's what it feels like and
  • 59:20
    I think the court system knew that which
  • 59:21
    is why they gave him such a lenient
  • 59:23
    sentence Don junior very good guy super
  • 59:28
    loyal to his dad down-to-earth it's
  • 59:31
    great campaigner I've got a great
  • 59:33
    message out there I campaigned with Don
  • 59:35
    in the month of September throughout
  • 59:37
    Pennsylvania and Don is a very high
  • 59:40
    quality guy Eric I don't know Eric as
  • 59:44
    well
  • 59:45
    we've generally interacted briefly some
  • 59:48
    times on the campaign and sometimes I
  • 59:49
    enjoin television appearances
  • 59:52
    but it comes like he comes across
  • 59:53
    incredibly articulate and hope Hicks
  • 59:57
    well hope and I were very close on the
  • 1:00:00
    campaign work super hard on the campaign
  • 1:00:03
    and she's incredibly loyal to the family
  • 1:00:06
    and to the president she's got a great
  • 1:00:08
    new job now and I don't think anyone's
  • 1:00:11
    ever saying bad about hope Hicks super
  • 1:00:13
    super person Omarosa you know Amoroso
  • 1:00:18
    bizarrely even though she said I cried
  • 1:00:20
    like a little girl when I got fired
  • 1:00:21
    which I'll let your listeners determine
  • 1:00:25
    whether or not I actually cried like a
  • 1:00:26
    little girl and I got fired I like her
  • 1:00:29
    you know so I mean my attitude is
  • 1:00:30
    Amoroso came from nowhere and I don't
  • 1:00:34
    think you should be firing a person like
  • 1:00:36
    Amoroso after she worked for the
  • 1:00:37
    president from for 14 years on and off
  • 1:00:40
    by sticking her in the Situation Room
  • 1:00:42
    and leaving her there for two hours I
  • 1:00:43
    don't think that's the right way to fire
  • 1:00:45
    somebody like her so so I'm not
  • 1:00:47
    surprised at the current vitriol that's
  • 1:00:50
    going on in the Trump Moroso
  • 1:00:53
    relationship I predict a I come back I
  • 1:00:58
    do I do I particularly figure that horse
  • 1:01:01
    Scott Walker a very solid guy he's got a
  • 1:01:03
    tough race in Wisconsin did a good job
  • 1:01:05
    for the state always found Scott to be
  • 1:01:08
    one of the more honest politicians you
  • 1:01:11
    know he was often he was friends with
  • 1:01:13
    previs and when I called Scott explained
  • 1:01:15
    to him what previous was doing at me he
  • 1:01:16
    was scratching his head he said this is
  • 1:01:18
    just nonsense it wasn't good long term
  • 1:01:20
    strategy on previous bar dr. Phil a
  • 1:01:25
    great guy I went on there with my wife
  • 1:01:28
    my wife and I were on the verge of
  • 1:01:29
    divorce some of it was personal wasn't
  • 1:01:32
    just political as it's been reported but
  • 1:01:35
    we love each other trying to patch it up
  • 1:01:36
    and dr. Phil and Tony Robbins are
  • 1:01:40
    friends of mine and I have to tell you
  • 1:01:42
    they were instrumental and help me keep
  • 1:01:43
    my family together so I love those two
  • 1:01:46
    guys Schumer I've always had a good
  • 1:01:49
    relationship with Senator Schumer and
  • 1:01:51
    and fully disclose to you that I have
  • 1:01:53
    been one of his donors he's always been
  • 1:01:56
    good to me and he had a funny line he
  • 1:01:59
    may not even remember this but he said
  • 1:02:00
    we thought you were so good at your
  • 1:02:02
    press conference we were looking for
  • 1:02:03
    ways to kill you he said but the
  • 1:02:04
    Republicans killed you before we could
  • 1:02:06
    get
  • 1:02:06
    you I thought that was very funny very
  • 1:02:08
    oh yes it's cute yeah
  • 1:02:09
    Pelosi so believe it or not I've
  • 1:02:12
    actually interacted with her her her
  • 1:02:14
    daughter is an award-winning
  • 1:02:16
    documentarian and so I don't believe in
  • 1:02:19
    her political views but I do have a
  • 1:02:22
    respect for her belief in her political
  • 1:02:25
    views and she's always been gracious to
  • 1:02:28
    me
  • 1:02:31
    how about Duncan Hunter do you run into
  • 1:02:34
    him ever I haven't so I don't really
  • 1:02:35
    can't really comment on him I'm a knight
  • 1:02:38
    from the paper but I really know in your
  • 1:02:40
    book you do mention some people I've
  • 1:02:41
    never heard of yeah got and I think I
  • 1:02:43
    didn't hear of Hope Hicks right away
  • 1:02:45
    either because the nobody's ever done a
  • 1:02:48
    a good flow chart of White House right
  • 1:02:50
    it would be nice if someone did just a
  • 1:02:53
    hint it for anyone mmm-hmm Rona Graff
  • 1:02:56
    and Johnny McEntee who are these people
  • 1:02:59
    so Rona Graff has been the president's
  • 1:03:01
    assistant she stayed at Trump Tower and
  • 1:03:03
    the Trump Organization but for probably
  • 1:03:05
    25 30 years she's been his personal
  • 1:03:08
    secretary enormous ly talented person
  • 1:03:11
    and a great person and Johnny McEntee
  • 1:03:14
    was the president's body guy throughout
  • 1:03:16
    the campaign and he's now working on the
  • 1:03:19
    reelection but he's a terrific guy young
  • 1:03:22
    kid very very smart and was there from
  • 1:03:25
    the inception what about John Brennan so
  • 1:03:30
    John I know he's spoken at our salt
  • 1:03:32
    conference you know I have a lot of
  • 1:03:34
    respect for John I know the president's
  • 1:03:37
    sword him and John sword the president
  • 1:03:39
    but I'll remind your listeners that he's
  • 1:03:42
    been at a pivot point in all of the
  • 1:03:46
    security related to anti terrorism since
  • 1:03:50
    9/11 and he's made a great contribution
  • 1:03:51
    to our society and kept countless
  • 1:03:54
    innocent American citizens safe and I
  • 1:03:58
    wish that him and the president would
  • 1:03:59
    dial back the rhetoric towards each
  • 1:04:01
    other what do you think is CNN you know
  • 1:04:05
    they were rough on me I write about it
  • 1:04:08
    in the book where they were they're
  • 1:04:09
    still rough they made up a story we're
  • 1:04:11
    still rough on me but you know they have
  • 1:04:14
    a right to do that I believe in the
  • 1:04:15
    First Amendment I have no problem going
  • 1:04:17
    over there it's like being a Yankee in
  • 1:04:19
    Fenway Park
  • 1:04:20
    but I have no problem going over there
  • 1:04:22
    and articulating my view or my opinion
  • 1:04:24
    but yeah I mean they're there they're
  • 1:04:27
    not the president's favorite news
  • 1:04:28
    organization that's for sure
  • 1:04:30
    MSNBC probably a little fairer than CNBC
  • 1:04:35
    CNN believe it or not I think that their
  • 1:04:37
    coverage from like say nine o'clock to
  • 1:04:40
    7:00 is probably more fair more
  • 1:04:42
    straight-up news less editorial ization
  • 1:04:45
    even though it is slanted to the left
  • 1:04:48
    obviously the evening stuff is very
  • 1:04:50
    left-leaning but uh listen I mean that's
  • 1:04:53
    the business model now there's
  • 1:04:54
    left-leaning and right leaning outlets
  • 1:04:57
    what did you think of the MIT Romney
  • 1:05:00
    moment when he comes out and trashes
  • 1:05:02
    Trump with one of their really just
  • 1:05:04
    excoriating commentaries calling him a
  • 1:05:08
    criminal yeah more or less I thought
  • 1:05:10
    that was a mistake I suggested two mitts
  • 1:05:13
    body guy and chief of staff Spencer
  • 1:05:16
    Swick the day that he was making that
  • 1:05:18
    speech to please not make that speech
  • 1:05:20
    but I think that was a mistake and I
  • 1:05:22
    think that that's a you know MIT will go
  • 1:05:24
    on to win the Senate race in Utah and
  • 1:05:27
    hopefully he'll find a way to bridge
  • 1:05:28
    that gap and work closely with the
  • 1:05:31
    president there are two great guys but
  • 1:05:32
    man they've got very different
  • 1:05:34
    personalities I think that's me
  • 1:05:36
    overstating the obvious what do you
  • 1:05:40
    think you said that you follow a couple
  • 1:05:42
    of these economic cycles do you think
  • 1:05:46
    them right now the way the markets
  • 1:05:47
    acting also do a stock market thing I
  • 1:05:49
    used to write for the for Forbes and
  • 1:05:51
    Barron's and a number of other published
  • 1:05:53
    publications I'm I'm a into cycles yeah
  • 1:05:56
    do you think that the market right now
  • 1:06:00
    is at a top and it's kind of splashing
  • 1:06:04
    around up there or it's creating a kind
  • 1:06:07
    of a high bottom I think III think it's
  • 1:06:12
    more of a high bottom just because of
  • 1:06:13
    what I know of the economic stimulus and
  • 1:06:15
    the furthering of that and how that's
  • 1:06:17
    going to affect earnings I do think the
  • 1:06:21
    Fed will be forced to slow down their
  • 1:06:23
    rate rises as these interest sensitive
  • 1:06:26
    areas of the economy start to slow down
  • 1:06:29
    the Fed you'll start hearing from the
  • 1:06:31
    Fed that they're moving back to date
  • 1:06:33
    dependency as opposed to just quarterly
  • 1:06:36
    or monthly rate rises and so I meant to
  • 1:06:39
    say month quarterly rate rises and so so
  • 1:06:42
    to me I think we're at an interregnum in
  • 1:06:46
    a bull market I think the bull thesis is
  • 1:06:48
    still intact after all these years yeah
  • 1:06:52
    exactly it's eleven eleven it you know
  • 1:06:55
    remember these things don't die of old
  • 1:06:56
    age they die of deteriorating
  • 1:06:59
    fundamentals and so we are cheating
  • 1:07:01
    history your listeners probably know
  • 1:07:02
    this but it's worth repeating the
  • 1:07:04
    American economy goes through a
  • 1:07:06
    recession once every eight or so years
  • 1:07:08
    and so we're cheating history right now
  • 1:07:12
    we're in the eleven and a half year of
  • 1:07:13
    an expansion but I still think we have
  • 1:07:15
    some room to go because of the way the
  • 1:07:17
    tax stimulus is affecting our GDP it's
  • 1:07:21
    been a real pleasure to be on with you
  • 1:07:22
    though thank you you good questioner
  • 1:07:24
    well I want to thank you for being on
  • 1:07:26
    this interview we do this every so often
  • 1:07:29
    we put them together and as part of the
  • 1:07:31
    our show process we take a day off and
  • 1:07:34
    we put these interviews on and that's I
  • 1:07:36
    I read your book I thought was a book I
  • 1:07:38
    could easily recommend I think people
  • 1:07:40
    especially travelers you could read
  • 1:07:41
    probably read the book on a round-trip
  • 1:07:43
    flight that's what I was hoping for
  • 1:07:45
    exactly what I tried to create I tried
  • 1:07:46
    to create a Airport book where you're
  • 1:07:49
    going to your destination and returning
  • 1:07:50
    home you'll finish it and hopefully I've
  • 1:07:52
    left you with some honest insight into
  • 1:07:54
    what I saw at the White House but also
  • 1:07:57
    during the campaign yeah it was very
  • 1:08:00
    very entertaining and had a lot of good
  • 1:08:02
    chunks of irony and other screwy things
  • 1:08:05
    in there that the gossips out there
  • 1:08:07
    would love this book I think you're
  • 1:08:08
    gonna have a good time reading it I want
  • 1:08:10
    to thank you for being on and we'll talk
  • 1:08:12
    again maybe some time in New York you
  • 1:08:14
    can buy a cup of coffee after it exactly
  • 1:08:17
    come in and we'll well a little lament
  • 1:08:19
    the market together
  • 1:08:20
    god bless okay I've to see you soon
  • 1:08:22
    thanks
  • 1:08:24
    [Music]
  • 1:08:25
    - no agenda imagine all the people who
  • 1:08:28
    could do is I just want to say nice
  • 1:08:42
    David that was different I haven't heard
  • 1:08:44
    the mooch that way I like that a lot
  • 1:08:45
    that was good Tom Starkweather I was
  • 1:08:47
    just gonna ask you who set up the who
  • 1:08:49
    set it up for you because I was gonna
  • 1:08:50
    produce the show out good and this is
  • 1:08:53
    when I had on my screen my my skype
  • 1:08:57
    screen I had the picture of of Al Gore
  • 1:09:00
    with blood all over his face holding
  • 1:09:02
    like the Friday the 13th or did ya
  • 1:09:10
    interview and I start were there Tom I
  • 1:09:14
    think he had to he he tried to go a day
  • 1:09:16
    beforehand and they were giving him a
  • 1:09:18
    hassle like security clearances and all
  • 1:09:21
    kinds of weird stuff it wasn't easy
  • 1:09:23
    yeah well thanks to Tom for that and
  • 1:09:25
    thanks to Anthony that was good I like
  • 1:09:27
    that that was interesting so we don't
  • 1:09:29
    have any people to thank because on one
  • 1:09:31
    of these interview shows we don't we
  • 1:09:32
    can't we're carrying over all the
  • 1:09:34
    donations to the next Thursday show
  • 1:09:35
    right which of course we'll also have a
  • 1:09:37
    wrap-up of the festivities which are
  • 1:09:39
    taking place as we speak a wedding and
  • 1:09:41
    maybe some interviews at the wedding
  • 1:09:50
    you're bringing your zoom recorder bring
  • 1:09:53
    the zoom material oh god well make sure
  • 1:10:01
    you talk to Tiffany and Willow then yes
  • 1:10:04
    I will definitely yes Wow Zuma zuma so
  • 1:10:11
    not as soon now it's a zoom zoom want to
  • 1:10:15
    remind people that this show is also
  • 1:10:17
    requires support so if you can help us
  • 1:10:20
    to go to know it you will get a
  • 1:10:23
    newsletter but some people don't get
  • 1:10:24
    that
  • 1:10:25
    and Dvorak dot org slash na and you have
  • 1:10:28
    all the links there for donating yeah
  • 1:10:30
    and you know you can see how the value
  • 1:10:32
    network works we had Tom Starkweather
  • 1:10:34
    who we only knew from end of show makes
  • 1:10:36
    us all a sudden Tom
  • 1:10:37
    like available and producing producing
  • 1:10:39
    the tired interview segment with us in
  • 1:10:42
    in New York and I think he gets a kick
  • 1:10:44
    out of it as well and he has an actual
  • 1:10:46
    executive producer credit or like a big
  • 1:10:49
    one in fact as the executive producer
  • 1:10:51
    because you know we have nothing nothing
  • 1:10:54
    has a producer yes and the producer
  • 1:10:56
    exactly you're right exec and producer
  • 1:10:59
    he's the showrunner showrunner oh yeah
  • 1:11:02
    we should add that to his to his
  • 1:11:04
    presence showrunner Jonah yes move on to
  • 1:11:07
    cliff Stoll who I interviewed in person
  • 1:11:10
    at in at his house very an interesting
  • 1:11:13
    place in Oakland and here we go I don't
  • 1:11:19
    cliff on and off for a long time and he
  • 1:11:22
    used to do a weird pose I used to know
  • 1:11:25
    you for a long time still do know yeah I
  • 1:11:30
    think so yeah usually if one person he
  • 1:11:32
    knows another one for a long time the
  • 1:11:33
    other one it's transit a similar cliff
  • 1:11:36
    used to do these editorial put spots
  • 1:11:40
    where he would more or less just say get
  • 1:11:43
    off the computer and go outside and get
  • 1:11:44
    some fresh air and that was his message
  • 1:11:47
    and it went to his message every time he
  • 1:11:49
    gave an editorial and I think it's still
  • 1:11:51
    your message my I don't have any
  • 1:11:55
    messages any more than this is the
  • 1:11:56
    medium the message no I'm
  • 1:11:58
    my feeling is enjoyment of life having
  • 1:12:02
    something to do having something
  • 1:12:03
    worthwhile in your mind and worthwhile
  • 1:12:06
    around you you can get it in a lot of
  • 1:12:08
    places unfortunately there's a lot of
  • 1:12:10
    places that you can spin your wheels and
  • 1:12:13
    and avoid doing cool things or do what
  • 1:12:18
    feels really cool and neat but ends up
  • 1:12:21
    at the end of it all feeling well I'm
  • 1:12:24
    not sure I did anything that's my day
  • 1:12:28
    yeah yeah it's everybody's day now you
  • 1:12:33
    had you still give speeches occasionally
  • 1:12:36
    I saw I saw an old TED talk of yours
  • 1:12:38
    once I did it that talk yeah that's
  • 1:12:40
    silly
  • 1:12:41
    well you're jumping around on the stage
  • 1:12:43
    and your ideas don't give them a
  • 1:12:46
    standing target yeah well this is a good
  • 1:12:48
    comedians do this they walk back and
  • 1:12:50
    forth on the stage for
  • 1:12:50
    the reason that it keeps the keeps field
  • 1:12:52
    from falling asleep sure but but to me
  • 1:12:56
    it's also uh what did my father say if
  • 1:13:01
    they're going to throw tomatoes at you
  • 1:13:02
    make sure that usually you miss but but
  • 1:13:05
    when I went to the this TED talk I
  • 1:13:08
    thought oh I'll have an hour to talk so
  • 1:13:11
    that there's only 18 minutes that's
  • 1:13:13
    right I get there and the guy says oh
  • 1:13:15
    you've got 18 minutes I say yep but I've
  • 1:13:17
    outlined in hours fuck you says well
  • 1:13:18
    compress it down so that's just that
  • 1:13:21
    easy
  • 1:13:21
    oh yeah so I just said oh I'll keep the
  • 1:13:24
    same things I'll just talk really fast
  • 1:13:25
    which is pretty easy because one of the
  • 1:13:28
    very few things I learned in grad school
  • 1:13:30
    was talk fast and get out of there
  • 1:13:33
    before they can understand what you're
  • 1:13:35
    not saying that's a good experience it's
  • 1:13:39
    I never learned that but I can
  • 1:13:42
    understand it now let's go over some of
  • 1:13:44
    the things that you some of your ideals
  • 1:13:46
    one that I wanted to talk about and the
  • 1:13:49
    one or at the top of the list is
  • 1:13:50
    something we always talked about a
  • 1:13:51
    little while ago which is computers in
  • 1:13:53
    schools throw them out well I'm not sure
  • 1:13:57
    whether you should throw the school's
  • 1:13:58
    out or the computers out but throw one
  • 1:14:00
    of them out
  • 1:14:01
    explain yourself because people said
  • 1:14:04
    well you know the computers are what the
  • 1:14:05
    kids are gonna have to work with when
  • 1:14:06
    they get into business and they get in
  • 1:14:09
    the real life they're gonna have to
  • 1:14:09
    learn how to use these computer horse
  • 1:14:11
    and of course they're all I all I seem
  • 1:14:13
    using him for us to play games and
  • 1:14:15
    message but I would assume that he had a
  • 1:14:17
    good course and in how to do Google
  • 1:14:20
    search might not be a business or a
  • 1:14:22
    computer or is it that the nature of
  • 1:14:26
    computing especially commercialized
  • 1:14:28
    computing is that it becomes easier and
  • 1:14:30
    easier to get things done 15 years ago
  • 1:14:34
    oh we have to teach computing in school
  • 1:14:36
    so that kids won't let be left behind
  • 1:14:38
    no kids learn computing real easy the
  • 1:14:43
    hard stuff to learn how do you put
  • 1:14:46
    together a legible and understandable
  • 1:14:50
    sentence how do you write a how do you
  • 1:14:54
    write a page of prose that is reasonable
  • 1:14:59
    to get you say to put on your resume or
  • 1:15:02
    to get you into college or
  • 1:15:04
    or to get to get through your classes
  • 1:15:07
    next week my concern is not can kids use
  • 1:15:13
    computers my concern is can kids use
  • 1:15:17
    their minds it's we all know computer
  • 1:15:24
    skills go out of date real fast oh yeah
  • 1:15:27
    they'll try to go back and use a Windows
  • 1:15:28
    3.1 system and see how far you get the
  • 1:15:32
    language that you learned today
  • 1:15:34
    Python Haskell Oh in ten years it'll be
  • 1:15:38
    obsolete there'll be something new for
  • 1:15:39
    you to learn and the the same is true of
  • 1:15:44
    various applications every application
  • 1:15:47
    is evolving a few of them are static no
  • 1:15:50
    I there are some things that it's really
  • 1:15:54
    useful to know and I think these can and
  • 1:16:00
    should be taught in school for example
  • 1:16:02
    how to read for meaning how to write a
  • 1:16:05
    concise expository statement how to
  • 1:16:09
    write prose how to write how to put
  • 1:16:13
    together a mathematical argument how do
  • 1:16:15
    how logic works that that students very
  • 1:16:25
    few students graduate from college today
  • 1:16:28
    having read Shakespeare well which is
  • 1:16:31
    more important to figure out how
  • 1:16:32
    Microsoft formats words or her
  • 1:16:35
    Shakespeare should formats words I don't
  • 1:16:37
    know which is more important but I'm
  • 1:16:40
    astonished that the question isn't even
  • 1:16:43
    brought up and well lots of people spend